Russia collusion, the investigation is lost in the weeds

I think we all remember the good ol days when everyone, especially the news media and Democrats were outraged over Trump's collusion with Russia which tipped the scales just enough to make him President.  Over the years that followed, an investigation took place that left no stone UN-turned and has followed even the tiniest lead to the Nth degree.


After they pretty much determined Trump didn't collude with Russia they dug in to everyone connected with his campaign, and finally even business associates connected to Trump owned businesses.  Of course that had to take some time, Trump is the sole or principal owner of about 500 business entities that do business all over the US and in about 25 counties.  I think it's fair to say that he never met an enticing business opportunity in another country that he didn't consider.  Of course since Trump already owns 500 businesses, his physical participation in most business deals might be limited to approving final paperwork, or often just reading a report authored by a subordinate who manages that part of his empire.


The investigation was looking for proof that Trump colluded with Russia to win the Presidency, but now we're going after subordinates who "LIED" when they claimed they had no contact with Russian operatives, because in fact they had been contacted by Russian officials who hoped to ingratiate themselves to whoever won, or in some cases work out some kind of business deal with Trump entities that had nothing to do with politics.  None of those activities effected the election, and in fact those activities are so commonplace that the same can be said of many Democrats who were in similar campaign or business positions.  Foreign countries send lobbyists here all the time, hoping to cozy up to whoever will be in power, and hoping to make profitable business connections.  The don't just play with Republicans, they play with whoever might prevail, and usually both sides at the same time.


I think the investigation is way off track, they forgot what their mission was.  I really don't care if one of Trump's campaign staff met with Russians if nothing came of it, even if he lied about the meeting.  I similarly don't care if Trump should have remembered that he did have entities of his business empire that were contemplating doing business in Russia, it has nothing to do with the election.  The investigation is about the ELECTION, even if he opened a hotel in Russia, I don't care, that's not collusion.


Dave Volek Added Jan 9, 2019 - 12:44pm
Nice summary Riley
To me, neither D's nor R's should be involved in business deals outside their political office. Just because the D's are likely doing it (or will likely do it as they gain more power) does not make it right. USA has many honest people; the system cannot find and place them into positions of government, then something is wrong with the system.
If honest people cannot be placed, then I should add that the D's and R's should select candidates that are less likely to be caught in such corruption. Before politics, Mr. Trump was a well known controversial character, with a long history of loose ends.  He sure gives lots of ammunition to his political enemies and a hostile media--for free. I wonder if he were a general in WW2, would he have been sending ammunition to the Germans.
George N Romey Added Jan 9, 2019 - 1:09pm
This has been nothing more than a 2 year story trying to find a crime.  Either we have the biggest dunces on the world investigating or there is no there, there.  I think both but more than latter. And most American people just yawn.  Rich people trying to exploit the system, including politicians, say it ain't so.
Just think if this effort had been put into investigating the Wall Street characters back in 2008/2009 that crashed a global economic system.
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 1:32pm
Dave, I would strongly disagree, I want the biggest baddest businessmen fighting for my countries best interest, not some Boy Scout who's never owned and managed anything larger than piece of the department they worked in.  Internationally proven businessmen have already proven they can succeed in that unique environment and they have to have an understanding of finance which I think is essential.
I'm also don't believe it's easier to bribe a rich Business Barron than it is to bribe someone whose fiscal interests are much less ambitious and smaller.  I rater doubt you could tempt someone like Trump with a salacious million dollar bribe because a million just isn't worth the risk to someone worth billions.  That's not true for people who don't already have billions. 
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 1:33pm
George, they are truly grasping at straws by this time and every time they look further away from Trump, the connection to the election gets weaker and weaker. 
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 2:08pm
Great article, Riley.  Actually, Russian Collusion was a Democrat plot worse than Watergate.  Hillary purchased the bogus Fusion GPS Dossier from a Marco Rubio backer for $12 million.  She then used this to feed to the FISA courts and the media, to weaponize our  nations media and intelligence agencies on Trump.  This is far worse than Tricky Dick Nixon, who oversaw bungling burglars breaking into the DNC for records. 
The American people are so naïve and gullible, that half of them actually think Trump colluded with Russia.  We have a few on WB who are firmly convinced of this.  The corruption and stupidity of tens of millions of Americans leads me to believe we may very well deserve to be slaves.  You can't have liberty if you are too dumb to preserve it.
Dave Volek Added Jan 9, 2019 - 2:27pm
If you want the biggest and baddest in the office, then the right man is in the office.
If you want someone who understands things, then the wrong man is in the office.
Trouble is that the office is losing credibility. As more apathy, cynicism, and distrust creep in, the legitimacy of government is eroded. The Roman Empire did not fall in a few weeks; it was a long process. How is the current president enhancing the
Mr. Trump would have no use for bribes. But he likes his business deals, and his current office gives him a lot more leverage than before to strike better deals. If you think it is OK for him to make personal business deals while dealing with national and world issues, how clear is intent for doing what is best for the country and what is best for his personal wealth? If he had decided to run on the Democratic ticket and won the presidency, would your outlook be different? The Clinton Foundation is under some controversy these days. Should we let the Clintons be exempt from investigation because they are now "international players"?
If the CEO class is indeed so superior to the Boy Scouts, then we should go back to the good old days when only the CEOs could vote. Right?
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 2:35pm
Dave, when you have moral standards and understand virtue and wisdom, two words you've never used on WB, because you are largely lacking both, you'll understand Trump.
Dino Manalis Added Jan 9, 2019 - 2:37pm
 Americans who voted for Trump are being offended by all these investigations!
The Owl Added Jan 9, 2019 - 3:05pm
Ryan...I don't think that this is something Hillary cooked up all on her own.  As Machiavellian, as she may be, I don't think she has the imagination to concoct something as twisted as this.
I allege that that honor goes to Syd Blumenthal, a political snake if there ever was one.
This is not to say that Hillary or Robby Mook, Hillary's campaign manager weren't well aware of what as happening, and I find it beyond all plausibility the Debbie Wasserman-Schulz was ignorant either.  The roles of James (The Saint) Comey, Andy (The Choirboy) Mc Cabe, Peter (Romeo) Strzok, Lisa (Juliet) Page, Loretta (Lady McBeth) Lynch, the rest of the Deep State, and William Jefferson (Don Juan) Clinton can't be understated.
Special prosecutors are about as unbiased as they get.  They are hired to investigate a target, and they ALWAYS find something that they can use to justify their existence, even if it is the proverbial illegal ham sandwich.
Add to this mix the "special prosecutor" chosen to hold the golden pitchfork...
Robert Mueller has about a tarnished a reputation as the get in the halls of justice of our country.  He was a special agent in Boston during the time that Whitey Bulger was being given free rein, and he became FBI director while Whitey was still being protected.  Mueller sanctioned all sorts of illegal actions ran blocker for Bulger by convicting on fabricated and withheld evidence at least two people for murders that Bulger actually committed.
Mueller also has a track record of prosecutions of political figures running for re-election.  The most egregious was the actions that he took against Sen. Ted Stevens which cost Stevens re-election.  On appeal, Stevens conviction was vacated with the Court taking special and scathing note about the wide range of improper actions and tactics used by Mueller and his team.  The excoriation was scathing.
And yet, Mueller was selected to lead the hunting party.
Mueller has netted only small fish and one "consultant" who was caught for "crimes" committed a decade ago while at the same time allowing bigger-fish co-conspirators guilty of the same crime on the same set of facts.  Tony and John Podesta (D-DC) have yet to be charged for their crimes.
What astounds me though, is that Mueller is not only continuing his hunt, he is asking for extensions of his pet, the grand jury.
We are two years into this charade with nothing to show on the original brief that Mueller was handed? 
Are we watching them develop real evidence that they have just encountered?  Are we looking at the typical Deep Service tactic of assuring continued employment on a political hit job?  Or are we looking at gross incompetence of monumental scope?
It's time for Mueller to put up or ship out.  I really don't care which he chooses to do.  
He owes it to the American taxpayer who is paying his bill.  He owes it to those that he has found to free of suspicion or who have broken no laws.  He owes it to the people that he intends to indict.  And, he owes it the nation to put forth the facts that he has discovered in his investigation.
If he doesn't, then Mueller is fair game for all the types of the charges of political interference that the courts have previously leveled at him and his teams.
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 3:24pm
It's totally corrupt, Owl.  Mueller never should have been appointed to begin with.  I'm really scared that we have leaders who allowed this nonsense, and I'm a regular person and even I can see this was total nonsense.  Agree with Mogg, just not his arbitrary deleting.
George N Romey Added Jan 9, 2019 - 4:11pm
Mueller is being pushed to find a smoking gun.  After 2 years a smoking gun has yet to be found.  It also needs to be a smoking gun Americans find appalling, which given recent times gets lower and lower.  Trump is no more or less different than other very rich guys.  They've screwed some little guys and done shady things.  Yawn.  
In reality this is heading towards a huge blowup that needs to occur.  Ultimately this country needed a bull in a china shop.
Ken Added Jan 9, 2019 - 5:28pm
I think the investigation is way off track, they forgot what their mission was
I don't think it is off track or they forgot what their mission was.  Their mission was always to find a crime to hit Trump with and manufacture the coup.
You assume it was about collusion, but if it were, Hillar yand her campaign and fusion GPS and Christopher Steele would all have been investigated and none have been.
It was always about getting Trump out of the office they had designated for Obama's successor.
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 5:46pm
Dave, by the very nature of already being wealthy Trump is immune the most common types of bribed, money that he and his family can use to live a better life.  That also goes for travel perks, he's never going to be swayed by free hotel rooms for him and his family even if you throw in lobster dinners every night. 
Yes, some country might catch his ear by promising to let him open new hotels in their country, but all of Trumps enemies are scouring the horizon looking for just that type of thing, and that's not something he can hide. 
Presidents usually do fare well after leaving office, look at Bill Clinton.  Bill was 16 million in debt when he was in office and thanks to things like their Clinton Foundation, worth 45 million today.  It's no secret that lots of that money was "donated" by foreigners who wanted favors.  I tend to think perpetual politicians are more susceptible to bribes because that's their only way of becoming rich. 
The reason I don't want a Boy Scout for President is because things like empathy aren't the type of skills a President needs in order to do things like balance the national checkbook or coerce world leaders and big company CEO's into doing things that are good for the US.  That takes a strong leader and those are usually not "nice" people.  Carter was a nice guy and he got walked all over.  I don't like that fact, but that's the way the real world works.
Bill H. Added Jan 9, 2019 - 5:47pm
Trump only understands greed, power, and the satisfaction of his ego.
If you support this guy, then you are the submissive weaklings that will allow this country to fail.
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 5:52pm
Owl, the purpose of the special investigation was to see if Trump colluded or authorized collusion with the Russians to tip the election in his favor.  All the current investigations continue at full steam even thought it seems they already answered the big question a long time ago.  Trump didn't collude with the Russians, and if other people tried to and failed it really doesn't make any difference.  They can't impeach Trump because someone that works for him lied, especially if the lie doesn't lead to any collusion. 
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 5:55pm
Ken you might be right, it might just be a Trump hit squad that can't admit they couldn't find anything, but I'd like to think they were sincere and well intended when they first started the investigation.
Ken Added Jan 9, 2019 - 5:56pm
Riley - the investigation was expanded and can always be.  That is why they went into business dealings of trump associates and other areas. 
Mueller (and his democrat hack persecutors) could have gone to Rosenstein at any time and said "We have found no evidence of Russian collusion criminality with the Trump campaign, but there is clear evidence that the Clinton campaign did it and we would like to expand our investigation there" and received permission.
This was never about anything other than "getting Trump for something"
Even A Broken Clock Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:09pm
Riley, after seeing the unredacted text of Paul Manafort's latest court filing, where he admitted lying about having given Trump campaign polling data to a Russian oligarch, and then later on came a coordinated social media campaign aimed at the most susceptible people in just the right districts to flip some vulnerable states, are you still not seeing links between the Trump campaign and the Russians who coordinated an active attack? Note that what was revealed in Manafort's filing did not indicate the Trump himself knew about or ordered the link, just that the chief campaign officer did pass on to the Russian's the information they needed to conduct their social media campaign.
My God, what will it take for folks to see and recognize that at a minimum, there were extensive links and coordinated activity between the campaign and Russia? What would constitute collusion (or conspiracy against the US, if you wish to go to a chargeable offense)? Would it take seeing a broadcast of DJT doing a blood swearing with a Russian GRU official, pledging to take down the US? Is any evidence less than this unbelievable to you?
Ward Tipton Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:10pm
"Trump didn't collude with the Russians, and if other people tried to and failed it really doesn't make any difference.  They can't impeach Trump because someone that works for him lied, especially if the lie doesn't lead to any collusion. "
And collusion is not even a crime to begin with ... else others would already be in jail. This is a prosecutor digging deep as he can to find a crime to prosecute. Nothing more or less ... unless of course you include partisan politics. 
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:15pm
A rough synopsis of the Mueller investigation.
'Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime'
Lavrentiy Beria
Stalin's head of the dreaded death squad, the NKVD.
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:18pm
EABC: You show me one person in America who voted for Trump based on the Russians.  Until then, zip it please.  We don't need know nothings like you acting as pawns for your Democrat overlords in the media and schools. 
And also, until you read 7 conservative news websites for 2 months of your life, you have no business forming an opinion on any political matter.  All you and your fellow leftists do is repeat the same lamestream media twaddle you are absolutely drunk with.  You don't realize you are dreadfully brainwashed and you are menaces to your nation with your stark, raving naivete.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:25pm
To me, that's simply an argument of a warmongering hawkish side that doesn't want that the US gets along with Russia. See weapon sales with Saudi Arabia. What hypocrisy is that when some idiots accuse Russia, which is functioning no less democratic as, for example, Turkey, to be a haven of terror when at the same time these people support a Saudi regime that actually supports extremist Wahhabia terrorists around the world ?
But....the international MIC doesn't need to justify. They have the power.
Weapons bring more profit than hotels. You can sell them to "friends" and "enemies" alike, let them kill each other and then you've got a free hand to secure their resources. The MSM will make sure that every clientèle is served accordingly LOL
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:27pm
It's much deeper than weapons, Stone.  Much deeper.  Cui Bono? 
You don't try to take out a President in the most powerful nation on earth over weapons sales.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:31pm
BTW: I repeat again: The peace prize guy 0bama has killed a lot more people (together with the Clinton slut) as Trump. I don't like his manners and behavior, and his stupid tweets as many people don'tz like.
But let's face it: He has NOT started a new war yet as his predecessors did. Why doesn't anybody mention that ? He may not be able to drain the swamp, but at least he didn't further extend it yet IMHO.
And he can't fight the MIC by himself. He has to compromise. If not, he's gonna end up like JFK, right ?
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:44pm
Jeff Michka: Practiced debauchery and ignorance.  Did Not Read.  A complete and utter simpleton, who attempts to use profanity and obscenity to attract the interest his intellect never will. 
Anyone on WB who associates with Michka is a pathetic disgrace. 
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:46pm
It is actually a disgraceful reflection on WB that Michka is tolerated at all. But we have the naïve types who bleat about 'muh freedom', 'muh First Amendment', and 'muh free speech', not realizing all three concepts were based on virtue, which Michka and they have absolutely no concept of either learning or practicing.  So they are stealing.
They want the benefits of freedom and liberty, but they refuse to do the work of practicing and learning virtue necessary to preserve the aforesaid freedom and liberty.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:53pm
"A rough synopsis of the Mueller investigation.
'Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime'
Lavrentiy Beria
Stalin's head of the dreaded death squad, the NKVD."
And yet more than two years in, no evidence of any crime ... if there were, you could bet it would be headlines in every propaganda ... I mean news outlet in the country. 
"To me, that's simply an argument of a warmongering hawkish side that doesn't want that the US gets along with Russia."
Yup ... and when politicians like Rand Paul said they would focus on international talks for trade, not for war, they called him an isolationist and a nut and refused to listen to him despite his popular support. 
Stone-Eater Added Jan 9, 2019 - 6:54pm
0bama, Bitchary, Trump, Bolton, Pompeo, name it....are the same club. They KNOW each other.
They only play comedy to distract people from real matters. What's the easiest way to rule ? Get two parties to bang each other for no real reason. Then you can mind your own business quietly. The MSM will be neatly parted between "right" and "left". Without people noticing that basically their only message is: I'm right and you have to approve because I'm right. How come ? Because I'm rich and influential and you're not.
"Oh yessir you have to be right. If not you weren't rich...."
BFY. Bug fucking yawn.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:01pm
"The MSM will be neatly parted between "right" and "left". Without people noticing that basically their only message is: I'm right and you have to approve because I'm right."
Each side espousing how their jackboot crushing our freedom, liberty and life is better than the jackboot from the other side doing the same thing.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:01pm
It is actually a disgraceful reflection on WB that Michka is tolerated at all.
I agree:
It is actually a disgraceful reflection on WB that Ryan is tolerated at all.
Not that I would be against Messie. He's ok by himself but he's lost in company. That's why he's against almost everybody else here. I wonder if his mom ever told him like "You don't really know who you are until the others show you".
Stone-Eater Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:07pm
Insults don't work with him. He needs that to feel he's alive. Like the wife that quarrels all day to get noticed, although she doesn't realize that nobody listens because she has a) nothing to say and/or b) she repeats herself all the time. Same result LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:09pm
....but he succeeds to get us off thread. Damn. Our fault....
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:24pm
Every wise and virtuous person on WB will delete Stone's profanity and Jeff, until both decide to alter their behavior.
They both reveal who is who.  Those who are corrupt and foolish are revealed, because they see nothing wrong with Jeff. 
It is utterly absurd that we don't have more people objecting to Jeff's filth and lies.  150 years ago his type was hogtied and whipped in public.  Then the entire town noted him for a fool and avoided him until he repented. 
Today, people tolerate his filthy, wicked, and evil insanity. 
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:30pm
You don't really know who you are until the others show you
Brilliant, Stone.  You are getting closer to enlightenment.  Once you realize you dislike me because I show you who you really are, away from your lefty and RINO sycophant friends, then you'll really be 'woke'. 
Stone-Eater Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:34pm
Thanks Messie.
I knew you could teach me something sooner or later. I take it to heart, and now please get back to the subject.
You can pray later.
Jim Stoner Added Jan 9, 2019 - 7:43pm
You misstated the purpose of the Mueller investigation--it was to understand any criminal actions related to Russian interference in the campaign or election. 
Trump is only involved in the investigation to the degree he is connected with those actions, which definitely occurred and appear to have been to some extent criminal, and which (it has been established) were conducted for the purpose of helping Trump win.   Whether he is or not connected with those actions has not been established, as far as I know, but those implicated (or indicted, or convicted) in the investigation include several who were close to Trump, as candidate or President-elect. 
Ryan Messano Added Jan 9, 2019 - 8:13pm
Jim, you don't understand.  You don't launch investigation with zero evidence of wrongdoing.  That is the definition of a witch hunt.  It is nearly 2 years, not one shred of evidence of collusion exists, which isn't even a crime, and we still have 50 million Americans convinced of 'muh Russian Collusion'.  LOL.  The stupidity is jaw dropping.  Meanwhile, the Clinton Foundation is one of the biggest crime families in American history, and she gets off scot-free while destroying 30,000 subpoenaed e-mails!!  With hammers and bleach bitting them out of existence so effectively, God himself can't find them. 
We don't deserve our freedom if the American people are too stupid to avoid being deceived by the plutocrat controlled lamestream media.
TexasLynn Added Jan 9, 2019 - 9:05pm
I have to admit, I'm with Ken on this one.  The whole thing was a "get Trump" insurance policy from day one; planned and orchestrated.
I understand trying to give the benefit of the doubt to our elected officials and officers... but eventually you have to call it for what it is.  A "witch hunt".
The Owl Added Jan 9, 2019 - 9:24pm
"...[T]hat's simply an argument of a warmongering hawkish side that doesn't want that the US gets along with Russia...."  -- Stone Eater
That's exactly what I thought when the news that Flynn had spoken to the Russians.  I see it this way:
Any candidate that hasn't spoken to foreign leaders doesn't have the knowledge needed to lead the nation.  Speaking to them and understanding their issues is crucial to forming foreign policy.
Any President-Elect's transition team in incoming principals is derelict in their duties for NOT speaking to foreign officials as those relationships are crucial to foreign relations.  As long as they contacts do no commit the nation to a course of action, something that only a sitting president and his administration are entitled to do, those contacts are appropriate and warranted.
Every president in my lifetime has spoken to foreign leaders prior to their election or elevation.  My days go all the way back to Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman.  Even Barack Obama and his people talked to foreign leaders...remember his foreign tour during his first campaign?  (He didn't make that trip for the sights and the food.)
There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't pursue better relations with our friends and enemies.  And when our friends are stabbing us in the back and our enemies are being gracious to us, why wouldn't we want to talk to our enemies and take issue with the shivs that our friends are using to tickle our ribs?
I am also reminded of the great RESET button that Obama's first Secretary of State made such a big deal about with the Russian foreign minister.  I didn't exactly see that as a hostile move on the part of either party.   It was just that it was Obama and Hillary that were doing it that had the liberals all atwitter with joy and high-fives.
If one actually thinks about it without the overlay of partisan politics, talking to our friends and enemies, no matter how cordial or hostile the conversations might be, is far better than exchanging hellos and greetings by the tops of intercontinental ballistic missiles.
The Owl Added Jan 9, 2019 - 9:29pm
Jeffie M, your' not so unaccomplished in the hate, intolerance, and bitterness departments yourself.
Your throne looks surprisingly like a commode in deep in the center of Central Park that hasn't been cleaned in more than a century.
Jim Stoner Added Jan 9, 2019 - 9:32pm
Ryan, There was plenty of evidence of wrongdoing; during the campaign itself it emerged (WikiLeaks of stolen emails), and subsequently much more (foreign interference in the election through social media).  Then, during the investigation, numerous lies in sworn statements.   Mueller continues to do his job despite all the chatter around him, and he will implicate Trump or his family members no more than the evidence indicates. 
As for witches, they are not to be found, but plenty of people self-dealing with foreign agents contrary to the national interest. 
I heard an interesting comment today:  because none of the top Republican operatives wanted to be associated with Trump, his campaign had to settle for a bunch of second-raters and corrupt con men.  This helps explain some of the missteps, and it does not in itself implicate the candidate.   
Let's see what is in the report; then the remedies will be more clearly identified.  I personally doubt that Mueller's report will justify impeachment.  I feel Trump should be censured, but not necessarily for collusion with Russia. 
The Owl Added Jan 9, 2019 - 9:53pm
Jim...the lies to the FBI were all aptly named "perjury traps", a common tactic for power-mad prosecutors like Robert Mueller.
And yes, there were a bunch of really strange things that happened on the Democratic side, things that went far beyond the Fusion GPS scandal...
Like Wee Willie Wanker's airport tarmac conversation with Loretta Lynch, purloined e-mails with no indication that any Republican had anything to do with it, CIA operatives ingratiating themselves with Trump folk before it even became known that there were leaked e-mails, Glenn Simpson and his Fusion GPS band of gypsies and thieves, Bruce and Nellie Ohr, the entire FBI gang of partisans, blatant lies and material misrepresentation to FISA courts to obtain wiretap authority against an opposition campaign,  Hillary Clinton's hijack of the Democratic National Committee...
And now we are hearing of false flag operations to paint candidate Moore from Alabama as being a tool of the Russians.
If Mueller and his merry band of rabid Democratic prosecutors don't start indicting people for some of these crimes against our government and our political system, then he himself needs to be indicted for dereliction of duty.
And I'm willing to bet that not a single Democrat will have his hinny in a sling for their perfidy in 2016.  So, Mueller is as much, if not more, of a criminal than anyone he might indict.
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 11:46pm
Broken Clock, if as you said there is no evidence Trump knew information had been given to Russian operatives, then there is no Trump collusion, and no impeachment or criminal charges against Trump are possible based on what they found.  Remember what they were looking for, "treasonbribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".  He's not guilty of any, they didn't find that.
As I've been saying, the investigation into Trump's gross misconduct should be over.  If the current investigation turned up criminal behavior by other people, they should open other investigations into those people, not continue to say they are looking for more evidence against Trump.
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 11:54pm
Participants, please forgive me for deleting all of Jeff Michka's insults.  There was a time I wouldn't have but lately I've noticed how much better other forums work when the moderator/authors do delete his posts. 
If enough authors do the same perhaps he'll go somewhere else.
If he acted out like that at home his mom would probably slap him silly.
Riley Brown Added Jan 9, 2019 - 11:58pm
Jim, the real Republicans never liked Trump or wanted him to be President, they only agreed to let him run on the Republican ticket so they could stop him from running independently and it backfired when the American people voted for him in the primary.
Now most Republicans hate him because he threatens their political empires.  He has few real Republican allies, and no Democratic allies.  He is much more of an Independent than a Republican.
Jim Stoner Added Jan 10, 2019 - 12:24am
Riley,  I find much truth in this last comment.  Some have had the courage to say what they really think of him; most who are in a position to speak to him have not.  And he doesn't really listen to them, anyway.  
Owl, reading your comment, my head spun a full 360 degrees!  
The main response I would give is that Mueller's job is not to indict or investigate Democrats, unless they are somehow connected to the 2016 Trump campaign shenanigans. (not likely but not impossible; someone in Podesta's office might have given away the passcode).   
Your beef, if any, is with Jeff Sessions, or with Rod Rosenstein, who are the people who should've directed any post-Obama investigation of the prior administation or the Clinton campaign in 2016.  On the contrary, I think the FBI had its shot--multiple times--before the election and they did not find a target to indict.
I will admit that some of the Drumpfkins indicted have fallen more than any other charge into the trap of committing perjury; the question is why they lied, if their actions were proper? 
I know why Trump lied about Stormy and Karen; I know why Bill Clinton lied about Monica Lewinsky.  Trump didn't lie under oath then; his lawyers tried their best to keep him from lying in his written responses to Mueller.  I'm sure it wasn't easy; lying comes so easily to Trump.  Mueller has given these guys every chance to be honest; few have chosen that path (and Trump has encouraged loyalty over truth). 
Ward Tipton Added Jan 10, 2019 - 4:03am
When Teddy Kennedy went to Russia openly, during a campaign, specifically for the purpose of defeating Reagan … crickets but
Just wait until after the elections are over, then Trump will be more flexible. Oh wait.
Trump personally arranged for Uranium 1 ... oh wait.
Trump has ties directly through his foundation to Russian interests, released in the Panama Papers ... oh wait.
His Spouse has received millions of dollars for speeches in Russia with donors who have donated to his foundation ... what huh?
Trump was busy playing with a little overcharged red button and did not want to talk?
The American Communist Party, Democrat Socialist Party and the American Worker's Party ALL support a straight D ticket ... including the members of the Democrat Socialists of America that are currently serving in the house and senate ...
But Russia is supporting the Republicans?
Does anyone else facebook giving tens of thousands of dollars of customer data to the Obama campaign and not recording it as a campaign donations? All of the foreign donations that were overlooked? The actual criminal act and subsequent conviction and fines for the O campaign without any criminal penalty other than the fines? 
Obama's Arab Spring, American influence in unseating the duly elected leader of Crimea and placing a Nazi sympathizer in power, knowingly trying to influence the election in Israeli elections ... again under Obama ... but now this is a crime worthy of being punished?
Move along citizen, nothing to see here. Orange man BAAAAAAAAD! 
Flying Junior Added Jan 10, 2019 - 4:13am
I'm sorry.  What would be the point of investigating Obama?
Of course it is patently ridiculous to say that Mueller turned up no evidence of Russian collusion.  Russian collusion is what brought on the investigation.  To deny it is laughable.  But whatever collusion and how much of it ever rose to the level of criminality will never be conclusively proven.
I think it is generally known that the objective of the Russians was to nudge a Trump victory.  Why can't you guys just admit that?  We let you keep the victory.  We didn't challenge it in the SCOTUS.  Trump is president.  Be happy.
But it will be a kick in the pants to read the final Mueller report and savor the last ten or twelve indictments handed down.  Don't worry, Mueller won't go after Trump.  That's not the way we roll in the U.S.  All is fair in love and war.  And we just got royally screwed in the ass by the shenanigans that Trump pulled in 2016 with his BFF Vlad.
Isn't that enough for you guys?  You should be laughing at us.  But you're not.  You are a bunch of scared children.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 10, 2019 - 4:45am
"Russian collusion is what brought on the investigation."
Why would there be a criminal investigation to discover the pertinent facts about something that is not a crime to begin with?
wsucram15 Added Jan 10, 2019 - 7:34am
Jim actually broke that down perfectly.
It is the media who is tying Trump to the investigation, or NOT depending on your brand of outlet for news.
The facts of the people surrounding the President have shown one thing so far, he is the goof everyone in NYC knows him to be.  He was told to hire or just hired anyone to run a campaign.  Also he already had dealings financially with some of these banks that are under investigation but everyone knew that.  Everyone around him is guilty of something to one degree or another.  He has always been that way, its almost a joke.
This entire thing is about 2020, except perhaps the actual investigation itself which I have repeatedly said that will have zero effect on Trump. ZERO.
Jeff Jackson Added Jan 10, 2019 - 7:49am
Excellent analysis and responses Riley. This is nothing more than a multi-million dollar witch hunt. At the end when it yields nothing, I am going to write a scathing review and recommend harsh, even Medieval punishments for the perpetrators. Let's face it, if they had something, they would have leaked it  by now. 
wsucram15 Added Jan 10, 2019 - 8:08am
Manafort is a well as some other Trump advisors who he remains in contact with.
But what can you expect from a man who was raised with wealth from the Genevese, Bonnano and Gambino crime families? Some of his initial dealings as an adult were with them, including the casinos.
Just ask anyone about his longtime friend Roy Cohn..who Trump bragged about in one of his books.
It has been testified to in senate hearings about at least the Genevese family and their control over New York and building in NYC. (1988)
Roy Cohn was a consort to Fat Tony Salerno of the Genevese family. Trump for years had known "business dealings" with these people.
It is the business he worked in...
However he stepped it up a notch when he couldn't get financed anymore.
Here is an example of his international game now "In 2013,  Russian mob boss Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov and 33 others were federally indicted on charges related to a gambling ring operating from two Trump Tower condos that allegedly laundered more than $100 million. A few months later, the same Mr. Tokhtakhounov, a fugitive from U.S. justice, was seen on the red carpet at Trump’s Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.
End result - the Russian guy fled and lost his property here.  Trump hung out with him in Russia during the pageant.
Dont tell me this guy is innocent.  But lets get him out of office and save some face.  Good Lord we have lost credibility with all allies.
SEF..Russia is a non-starter here, you will find on both sides of the aisle.
George N Romey Added Jan 10, 2019 - 8:16am
Jeanne isn't that the problem.  If the political system really got exposed the nasty truth would be known.  Look at many national politicians and ex Presidents and its a trail of crimes and loss of morality.  The issue with Trump is that he can and probably will if pushed bring all the cockroaches into the light and then the sheep that believe in the good ole USA (the devoted fans of either MSNBC or CNN) would have no where to go.
wsucram15 Added Jan 10, 2019 - 8:18am
Collusion is not a thing, conspiracy is the crime but its still not murder people. Conspiracy to defraud the US Government is the crime, 5 years max- per count.
 Now I dont know how many counts or what other charges would be included in that. 
Trump will not be charged...nor will he be impeached. Not because he isnt guilty, just because they want him out of there.
wsucram15 Added Jan 10, 2019 - 8:19am
Riley..apologies for all the comments.  Great article.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 10, 2019 - 8:30am
"Manafort is a well as some other Trump advisors who he remains in contact with."
Aren't all politicians? At least after their first year in the system anyhow?
Steel Breeze Added Jan 10, 2019 - 10:03am
Riley,spot on,the whole thing is bullshit by a bunch of losers that are pissing away more of my money...
Riley Brown Added Jan 10, 2019 - 10:35am
Steel Breeze, I think for many it's "something" they could use to post negative news articles about Trump on a daily basis.  I truly think the Democratic leadership knew that even if they discovered conspiracies that involved colluding with Russian operatives to sway the election, that it wouldn't have involved Trump, but kept it alive because they had nothing worse to showcase.
Riley Brown Added Jan 10, 2019 - 10:40am
Wuszram even if Trump is impeached, sooooo what???
Clinton had sex in the White House, lied about it and was caught red handed by DNA, and was impeached... what good did it do?
He stayed in office, all it did was waste tones of tax money and make it harder for everyone including him to do their jobs.  It was a huge distraction, and little more.
There is no chance Trump's collusion accusation will ever be that serious so it's not worth another tax dollar. 
wsucram15 Added Jan 10, 2019 - 10:48am
You are right.  But its not about Trump, if it was then I could agree completely.     But like you I pay taxes and all this pesky mess and wastefulness bothers me.
I just have my sights set where I know there will never be a return on investment.  Not a dime.
Trump story is to keep everyone occupied.  Thats all.
Ken Added Jan 10, 2019 - 11:07am
It is all about keeping Trump on the defensive and keep him from governing and pushing his agenda.  All these stories from the psychologist claiming he had dementia to the affairs to every other "current Trump outrage" is designed to keep him off kilter and to try and drive a wedge between his base and himself.  To keep him from governing, to energize democrat voters - since they have absolutely no policies that Americans want, they need to keep the base riled up as they sort of did in 2018 and need to keep going in 2020 to have any shot at all at regaining more power.
It is all about party and power and nothing about the good of the country, and it is how they intended to force themselves back in control
Bill Kamps Added Jan 10, 2019 - 12:57pm
Meeting and speaking with Russians is not by itself a crime.  People in the government and private sector do it every day.  So of course there is plenty to "investigate" once that becomes the reason for some investigation.  The people that met with the government, are then accused of guilt by association, which is nonsense.   They are forced to admit they met with Russians, and try to prove a negative that they didnt talk of anything that would be against the law. 
It is easy to be caught in a lie under such circumstances.  Add in some real dimwits like Manofort, and you have a ripe environment for assuming almost anything.
The media have whipped up the Russians as such a boogyman, that they "forget" to tell us we do billions of dollars of trade with them every month.  Add to this various policy meetings, and thousands of meetings with Russians happen monthly, whether in the private or public sector.  It is not unusual, different, or even the least bit illegal.  
The media likes to imply that because a meeting took place, something illegal was discussed or accomplished.  As we have seen, most of the time nothing was accomplished as the people on both sides were merely trying to learn about each other. 
wsucram15 Added Jan 10, 2019 - 5:50pm
the stories you see (that we all see) are intended for the most part, while the really good stuff goes on and gets very little coverage.
I have a friend that does this stuff and sometimes the stories have to push a certain spin. However, the real news isnt hard to find if you take the time to look for it. Getting it in the paper or on air, is a little more difficult.
The problem is, people like this crap. They do and it sells products so sponsors buy ad time and space.
Ken Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:21pm
The problem is the media is nothing more than the  mouthpiece for the republican party and are their propagandists.  Try going to almost any media outlet with a positive story on Trump or something on Trump's agenda and see how "easy" it is to get it published....and if it does get published is it on top of the fold or on page A-32?
John Minehan Added Jan 12, 2019 - 9:09am
This is interesting . . . .
Gregory S. McNeill Added Feb 4, 2019 - 1:28pm
Trump has always been corrupt and gotten away with breaking the law for years. I am a native born New Yorker and from the same state as the President. Trump being in The White House is tarnishing the Presidency and as long as he remains there, it continues to lose credibility.