Free Speech is not Always Pretty

Free Speech is not Always Pretty
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I want to start off with a joke.  Not my joke, of course.  Ron White's joke, he is much funnier than I:

 

Ron White talking about Osama Bin Laden

 

At the end he says "comedy's not always pretty."  Keep in mind this monologue included licking buttcrack, grape jelly and a convict named thunder dick.  Why did I bring this up?  Well, Ryan wrote an article entitled "Why the Founders of America would have supported banning Stone-Eater, Jeff Michka, James Travil, and Opher Goodwin from WB."  He thinks Autumn should ban those individuals from WB.

 

 This article shocked me.  Why on earth would an author here want to ban anyone?  This is Autumn's site, she makes the rules for us to follow.  For the most part she let's us have at it.  She requires that everyone comment on other people's work and reminds us to do so.  There are some other things but that's about it.  I appreciate this, I belong to forums that regularly suspend and even ban people for using language or saying racist things.  I generally disagree with this because I am a true free speech advocate.  I also understand that those forums are not mine, that they have rules for a reason and it's not my place to judge.  

 

Most of you know where my interests lie.  I go out into the internet to  whack on Holocaust deniers and their related ilk.  I explained why in another article so I won't go into that now.  You would think I want deniers suppressed but that is not the case.  Why?  There are a couple of reasons:

 

1) Suppressing something often makes it attractive.  I see no reason to make someone a martyr.  On related note I disagree with "memory laws" that make Holocaust denial or other related types of denial illegal for the reason I just gave.

 

2) Even when someone is wrong they sometimes have something valuable to say or contribute.  I read some denial books early on that gave me access to documents I didn't know.

 

This brings us back to WB.  Everyone is here for different reasons.  I originally came here because Autumn invited a denier I knew.  I came in response to that but I stayed because it gives me a place to write about whatever is on my mind.  I generally write about history but I also write about politics or personal things.  I enjoy reading the articles here even if I disagree with much I read.  Whether or not I  agree is never the point.  The point is it helps me see how others view the world we all live in.

 

This brings us back around Ryan.  Unfortunately Ryan believes that only certain types of articles and comments should be allowed.  I completely disagree because we all need to see how others view the world.  We all learn things from each other even if it's not always pretty.  That's OK, free speech isn't always pretty but that's exactly the point.  We need all of it.  The extreme is not having the ability to speak our minds.  When that happens we know society itself is being suppressed.

 

I told Ryan that I disagree with pretty much everything he says but I oppose any effort to suppress him.  He obviously feels different.  The problem is that dangerous sword cuts both ways.  You suppress my speech it's very likely someone will suppress yours.  

 

We all police our articles differently.  I am much more free-wheeling than others, I don't mind when people go off topic and I always let comments stand.  I have a very strict "no delete" policy.  My only rule is never insult my family.  Period.  My wife and children have nothing to do with you, nor do my mother  or my siblings.  I let personal attacks on me stand.  The only person I ever deleted was John G. and only because he persisted in his attacks.  That's it.  Others are more strict than I am.  That's fine though I am less likely to comment on a serial deleter's article.

 

I wanted to include some legal aspects of free speech but that will need to wait.  I will say there is no such thing as truly "free speech."  In the United States it just means that the government can't arrest you for exercising your speech regarding political matters .  If I walk into my next training session and say I think Donald Trump is an ignorant pig fucker who sucks Putin's dick at every opportunity I would get fired.  Rightfully so because that is unprofessional and disruptive and has no place at my place of employment.   It's also a given that I can't threaten bodily harm or incite others to commit bodily harm.  I can't violate Autumn's rules because she owns this site and allows me to publish my articles.

 

I look forward  to seeing everyone's thoughts on the matter.

 

Comments

Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:33pm
Jeffrey, LOL, indeed comedy is not always pretty. Ron White has made me laugh so hard I was worried I might hurt myself. 

Anyway, you present an excellent case.  My thoughts are basically the same as yours.
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:36pm
Jeffrey, BTW, in support of your case I want to say how much I enjoy your interactions with the holocaust deniers here.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:39pm
Thanks, Mustafa.  I also find Ron White really funny.  The only one I don’t really like is Larry the Cable Guy.  I like Jeff Foxworthy and Larry Engval.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:43pm
Jeff Michka Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:47pm
Nice shot at it, Kelly, however, Ryan makes all sorts of demands, and attacks constantly, but I  don't remember anyone demanding him be banned.  He's annoying enough, and you are fortunate he's not attack your parents, family, wife and kids.  My "first contact" with Ryan was an attack on my whole family over a comment posted concerning unions.  It was harsh and he was hoping I'd just turn tail and run away from WB to the point he hinted that's what I should do.  Nope.  Now, sadly and unfortunately, Fernando has publicly announced he was leaving, and Ryan was the reason, which empowered Messano to the point of thinking his "ban 'em, Dan-o" post would get traction, and due to "Ryan power," Autumn would do as he told her.  Fernando should have announced, despite Ryan's attack he was staying, but, obviously it's his choice.  I, for one, do not get ran off easily, as a few have discovered.  I've been called every name in the book, knowing none of them were me.  How would the assholes know who I am?  Ryan is an online bully.  Offline, in a city council meeting, his bullying got him tossed.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:54pm
I got a big kick out of that YouTube video.
Carole McKee Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:58pm
I don't always agree with Stone-Eater, Jeff Michka, James Travil, and Opher Goodwin. In fact, we often do battle; but I would never want them to be banned. They are entitled to voice their opinions, just as I am. As long as they don't get vicious, insulting, or threatening, I'm fine with their posts. Even threatening wouldn't bother me, After all, they can't get to me. LOL!
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:08pm
All,  I feel it is relevant to repost a comment I made in the Fernando adios post
 
All, 
Npw that the dreary issue of banning Ryan is over, I would like to comment. It is clear to me that a WB without Ryan would be a much better place, but I am definitely against banning him. 
Nevertheless, I have  a different problem with Ryan than I think many do. To me he is hysterically funny. I have not seen someone so confused, with logic so backwards, with the strangest combination of arrogance, ignorance, insecurity and vitriolic  hostility presented with self declarations of  truth, wisdom and virtue in a sea of logical fallacies that include outright lies ever in my life.
 
Here is a very nice lie:
RM:We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps."
 
But sometimes he is just plain charming:
  RM” If you want the right to vote, then GO EDUCATE YOURSELF, YOU LAZY HUSSY.
You gotta love that dialectic. That truth and virtue!
 
And when someone of  this nature
 has to spout off on everything, they leave a trail of evidence that is extremely rich for the development of claims regarding his dishonesty, lack of rationality,  and one might say insanity.  Moreover, the vast number of Jungian projections, accusing people of doing exactly what he does, is impressive. As I said, he is really entertaining. That said, I do wonder if he realizes that he is leaving an internet trail of  nasty inanities of epic proportions which, if a political opponent got  ahold of, could be very useful.
 
However, I have a problem with this form of entertainment for several personal reasons, but let me just mention one that is of concern for WB; Engaging Ryan can ruin the thread on someones post. There  are many posts here where the post subject material is not even being discussed at all. So in reality then there is no “marketplace of ideas”. Instead you have a marketplace of squabbling. On the other hand, although we could leave the responsiblity to controlling content on a thread to the post owner, I dont think this is really wise, since most posters dont want to censor. But of course, they would like to not have their threads trashed either. In conclusion it is my feeling that it is not just Ryan who is reponsible for the epic nature of his destructive influence, but many of us who engage him.  I suspect if we simply accept that we have a very unhappy juvenile with alot excess energy to  whip the unbelievers and destroy the vile liberals in an old testament fashion on WB, and simply ignore him we may be able to regain some sense of communication between the remaining grownups that many of us come here for. IMO, alot the responsibility is with us.
 
Maybe a “ban from commenting on my thread” button might be very useful here.
 
Mustafa
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:25pm
I think authors can issue warnings.  I realize I get led down a garden path by people like Doug Plumb.  I think issuing warnings asking posters to comment somewhere elsewhere  or write an article about the tangent is a good idea.  I realize when I am doing it.  I usually apologize and move off.
 
 
Jeff Michka Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:37pm
But how seriously can you take a Ryan demand? PlumbDoug does do stuff like that (path-leading,so?) and I realize his conspiracies are what they are, his and have no substance.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:57pm
The Muslim animal is on the loose.  Someone put that rabid dog back in his cage.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:59pm
Nothing of substance from Ryan, that’s disappointing.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:12pm
First off, Jeffrey, you and everyone on here who approve of your post are everyone woefully clueless about the origins and Writers of the First Amendment.  It wasn’t created for everyone to say anything. It was created for virtuous truth, not the depraved and vile garbage that Michka and company litter WB with.  Mufasa has been told multiple times, and he refuses, as do all the debauched intellectual dwarves on the left, who recently won a new convert to the Dark Side in Leroy, to actually read five biographies of the Founders of America.  It’s a very dark day when someone agrees with the filthiest mouth on WB.   Those of you who disagree with banning the Filthy Foursome have the audacity to speak out while refusing to research the First Amendment.  It would be better for America if we were spared your opinions and you didn’t vote. You are menaces to society.
 
Mufasa is a crafty serpent, ‘umbly spreading his poison to his unwitting victims.
 
May I recommend you all INFORM your opinion BEFORE blurting it out? 
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:21pm
Jeffrey - I neither want people banned neither do I delete stuff off my threads - though it does get tedious when the whiny child comes out with his brainwashed extremism and bombs my threads with multiple wads of slime and nonsense. I just treat the silly brat as I find him. If he attacks me and my family the piece of repressed scum gets a load back.
I have had many discussions on here with people of widely different views to my own. Most are intelligent exchanges. A few get a bit heated but that's fine. Some are deaf and blind but I find that par for the course for a number of people.
I do think that Autumn needs to warn the child though. He is running amok just like he did at that civic meeting. His rants are puerile and unconstructive. He needs telling.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:21pm
LOL, there we go.....
Ryan, this is the First Amendment:
 
”Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
 
Very simple, yes?  Nothing about “virtuous speech” or any type of qualifiers.  
 
That is what makes it truly brilliant and even beautiful.  It’s a fantastic ideal.
 
You are reading something into it that is not there.  I don’t care about 55 biographies of the founding fathers or 777 conservative websites.  What is written in the Federalist Papers is the musings of men trying to figure things out and persuading others to their points of view.  What matters is what they finally put to paper.
James Travil Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:23pm
All fascist tyrants like Ryan need to silence their opposition. They are inherently week cowards who's nonsense can't stand up to the light of day let alone any form of scrutiny. Lying Ryan is particularly pathetic because he thinks that he can issue orders to others, even the site's owner Autumn. And he is the Supreme hypocrite of all hypocrites I've seen because he attacks people for no reason then crys foul when they counter and defend themselves plus he crys about his fear of being banned then tries to ban others. He is a sad man child. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:24pm
BTW - if I read one more time about that stupid 'read 5 biographies of the founding fathers' shit I might just change my mind. What a moron.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:25pm
LOL, yes, Opher, I agree.  What difference does that make?
Dino Manalis Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:27pm
 Free speech is sometimes offending, it should be as pretty and interesting as possible, but it's free and open to criticism.
James Travil Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:28pm
Of special note, concerning the five biographies, Ryan said he would not interact with me until I read them, something that I will never do. Let's see just how long before lying Ryan lies about that one, lol! 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:37pm
Thanks for reminding me, Travil.  You are unfit to converse with.  Willfully ignorant, petulant, profane, and wicked.  Those are objective assessments that 100% of those with objective opinions on earth agree with.  That goes for Badlose, and Michka too.  All three of your comments, along with Stone's will be deleted from my post from here on out, and none of you will be responded to.  Since no one of substance on WB ever really talks to you four, you can have a get along gang where you can all inspire each other with your latest corrupt ideas.  Mufasa will be included on that list, so will FJ.  The rest of us will learn and progress.   You six will be left in your stale, static, stagnant state.  You are welcome to join the rest of us when you learn history, and civility, but until then, love dictates you need to be left alone.   
 
It's time to leave you corrupt children to your wicked devices.  You've been warned.  Scorners and scoffers hate to be corrected, and love to be flattered.
 
They say adversity always contains the seeds of the cure.  How true. 
Neil Lock Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:38pm
Jeffrey: Thank you for your attempt to bring sanity to this matter.
 
As to Holocaust deniers, on matters other than fascism and what springs from it, I found Tom Purcell quite an engaging individual. Autumn, can we have Tom back in place of Ryan, please? :-) </sarc>
 
And Ryan, Mustafa isn't a serpent. He's a mathematician. If you've ever done complex integration, you'll know that it winds rings round us all.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:43pm
Did Tom get kicked off the island or did he just leave on his own?
Paul Hosse Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:46pm
I forgot who originally said it, but as the expression goes, "your right to free speech stops at the tip of my nose".  Free speech should, sometimes, make us uncomfortable. It should make us think if it's done openly and honestly (not to mention respectfully). However, all too often we try to shout down opinions we disagree with. We try to force people to back off through bullying and intimidation, which is wrong. People, as a rule, don't like change. It's unnerving and scary. But it's differing opinions that often push us forward as individuals and as a society.
What we're seeing today is an active and ongoing attempt to stifle open discussion; to try and control the narrative and keep our "echo chamber" intact, less we run away to find a "safe spot" to hide. Increasingly we're seeing violence employed to deny any opposing thought. It's as if they're saying "you have only the right to accept my opinion/beliefs and nothing else".  We're seeing it the Middle East (ie Islamic extremists). We're seeing with the "migrants" in Europe, and alarmingly, we're seeing on US colleges campuses and even in high schools. When free speech dies, so does freedom. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:49pm
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:49pm
Freedom and liberty are IMPOSSIBLE  without virtue, and this is something practically no one talks about.  Hollering for your rights but refusing to uphold virtue is nonsense.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:51pm
Very well said, Paul.
James Travil Added Jul 11, 2018 - 5:55pm
That's probably because the "virtues" you hold to Ryan are lying, hypocrisy, and bigotry. Not exactly what most people approve of. 
Jeff Michka Added Jul 11, 2018 - 7:17pm
Nazi Tom went off into "Night and Fog" all on his own, I believe.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 11, 2018 - 7:43pm
Yawn. What do i spend my time here for when it's being invaded by whackos and circular jerks who know fuck all but pretend to be Jesus ? Hope the new site will be free of that spam....
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jul 11, 2018 - 8:47pm
Deleting and banning are not acts of one who loves freedom.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 9:31pm
 
Chastisement makes chaste.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:21pm
Ryan is very selective about what he considers free speech.
EXPAT Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:24pm
Jeffrey Kelly.
Just a few observations.
1. The world wide Holocaust Museums do a much better job of refuting the deniers, than you possibly could.
2. I do not understand the obsession with Ryan! Yes, he goes off on a tangent. Yes he can be obnoxious. Yes he is in my opinion deluded in his belief. BUT SO ARE MANY OTHERS ON WB!
It is far too easy to just ignore him or delete his comments, if he is interrupting your thread.
I once compared him and Michka to the left and right fists of a deluded boxer.
3. Tom Purcell is gone. No loss. Autumn blocks the login of people she wants gone from the site. Members never know if he just left or had his login blocked.
4. It seems the same people who are obsessed with Ryan are also obsessed with TRUMP. I am not sure if this is a coincidence or there is a psychological association with strong contradictory opinions. I see very little reasonable refuting of eithers positions.
5. This site is for personal attack and outrageous opinions. The fake Fernando couldn't take it! I wonder why he was here in the first place? My guess is he was not accepted on professional sites!
 I was invited to join WB many times from LinkedIn, but each time I checked the site, and laughed at the low level of intellect. I decided to join because it gave me insight into the average guy, and the delusion that was taking place in America. When the reasonable people left, I stayed to play with the remaining fools. But now, just like the Cat that eventually kills the mouse, I am weary of the same old crap being repeated over, and over, and over!
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:34pm
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:41pm
Thank you for your support Expat.  Though we disagree on the pursuit of pleasure and the wisdom in doing so outside of the confines of marriage, we agree on liberty of speech, and much else. 
 
Let me explain their obsession with me.
"No man is hated more than he who tells the truth"
Plato.
 
Trump and I never used drugs or drank.  I read a lot more than Trump, and I don't use profanity, and don't attack personal features like Trump, so I am far more deadly and dangerous to the left than Trump is.  They are absolutely terrified of me, and lose their minds when I come around.  They understand their way of life is severely threatened by me.  Actually, I don't pose a threat to them.  They are ghosts and they are scared of the Angel.  They are more afraid of the pain, than they love the liberation the truth will bring them. 
 
This is why you and I differ on a few things as well.  The pain of liberation is more impressed upon many more than the love of the joy, peace, and serenity of freedom from lust brings.
 
Great comment, and I totally agree.
This site is for personal attack and outrageous opinions. The fake Fernando couldn't take it! I wonder why he was here in the first place? My guess is he was not accepted on professional sites!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:47pm
@EXPAT:
”Jeffrey Kelly.”
 
Yes, EXPAT.

“Just a few observations.”
 
Oh, goody.

“1. The world wide Holocaust Museums do a much better job of refuting the deniers, than you possibly could.”
 
How do you know?  You don’t know a damn thing up history.
 
But just as a word of encouragement and a thank you for commenting on my article:
I don’t give a fuck what you think.

“2. I do not understand the obsession with Ryan! Yes, he goes off on a tangent. Yes he can be obnoxious. Yes he is in my opinion deluded in his belief. BUT SO ARE MANY OTHERS ON WB!”
 
Absolutely.  I also have a thick skin so Ryan’s rants don’t bother me.

“It is far too easy to just ignore him or delete his comments, if he is interrupting your thread.”
 
He is always welcome to comment on my articles.  You as well.  You definitely need to learn more history.  I never delete anything unless it breaks my personal rules.

“3. Tom Purcell is gone. No loss. Autumn blocks the login of people she wants gone from the site. Members never know if he just left or had his login blocked.”
 
Oddly enough I hold a strange affection for Tom.  I sort of liked him.  He was a miserable excuse for a denier but he wrote fairly well.

“4. It seems the same people who are obsessed with Ryan are also obsessed with TRUMP. I am not sure if this is a coincidence or there is a psychological association with strong contradictory opinions. I see very little reasonable refuting of eithers positions.”
 
I would think suffers of Trump Derangement Syndrome would like someone like Ryan.  Anyone who voted for Trump would be right up his alley.

5. ...I am weary of the same old crap being repeated over, and over, and over!
 
OK, bye.  Enjoy Thailand.
Pardero Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:51pm
Jeffrey Kelly,
I don't care much for vulgar language, though I don't entirely refrain from it. I believe that you made an excellent case for your point of view. I am not having any luck in distinguishing it from my own position.
 
Neil Lock,
If everyone was as civil as Tom Purcell, the self-professed Nazi, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
 
Ryan Messano,
Yes, the Constitution was written for a virtuous population. You have not, and likely never will convince me, that those you condemn, are other than virtuous. They love their families and their countries. They care about their fellow man. They do not hurt people. They are industrious. They are inquisitive and intelligent.
 
Maybe three still meet your standards, here on Writer Beat. Leroy is slightly to the right of me on a couple of issues. If you believe Leroy has "gone to the dark side," you may as well lump me into that group, too.
 
OR you can get a desperately needed reality check. The Founders would have never approved of the Taliban-lite that you are promoting. Many were actually deists, and were not encumbered with a lot of religious dogma. They would have had little use for the harshest and sternest verses that you have cherry picked. 
 
You will not gain many converts, here. Actually, you don't even have a proper standing. You have not pursued a wife. You are not raising happy and healthy children, or already raised them to adulthood, with productive lives. You are misdirecting some of the passion that God gave you. You are not complete without your wife. I believe that is the reason that you have become extreme. 
 
You are not fulfilling your obligations until you take a wife and have children. Your lame excuses carry no weight with me. You and Doug Plumb are the male counterparts to cat ladies. Both of you are reading and writing instead of capturing brides, which is what the Creator intended for you to be doing. 
 
My instructions to you: get OUT of the library, and your nose OUT of the books, and get it the hell where it does belong. You will not and cannot be right with God and the world until you are doing what you are supposed to be doing. You need to be at church every Sunday. Let it be known that you are looking for a wife. Try another church if no prospective brides are available at that church. I'm thinking a conservative Southern Baptist lady, maybe a good Catholic girl. If you are LDS, the demographics would be very favorable for you. I do not recommend a Jehovah's Witness, though Holy Rollers are ok. Counter-intuitively, the demographics in bigger cities will be more favorable, and poorer in rural areas. You need a conservative city girl, but not too conservative, because you need to get busy making lots of babies.
 
Get busy before all the good ones are taken.
 
EXPAT,
As one of "low level intellect average guys," I resent your broad insult to your intellectual superiors on this site, that I have gained so much from. Maybe your stale curmudgeony stuff is just way over my head.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:59pm
@Ryan Messano:
”Trump and I never used drugs or drank.”
 
He also screwed pornstars and AFAIK you didn’t.  Or did you????  Why Ryan, you salty old dog!!!!!
 
He is also a serial philanderering pussy grabber.  AFAIK you are not.  Or are you???  Well, it’s always the repressed ones who are the most freaky.
 
“I read a lot more than Trump,”
 
A second grader reads more than Donald the Thud.
 
“and I don't use profanity,”
 
That you don’t.
 
“and don't attack personal features like Trump, so I am far more deadly and dangerous to the left than Trump is.”
 
That TTTTTTHHHHHPPPPPPFFFFFFT sound you hear is your head inflating.
 
“They are absolutely terrified of me, and lose their minds when I come around.”
 
LOL I honestly get the biggest kick out of you.  Does your ego catch on door handles when you walk through?
 
 
“They understand their way of life is severely threatened by me.”
 
From what I can tell from YouTube you can’t even get through a city council meeting.
 
“Actually, I don't pose a threat to them.”
 
Right you are!!!!
 
 
EXPAT Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:00pm
“3. Tom Purcell is gone. No loss. Autumn blocks the login of people she wants gone from the site. Members never know if he just left or had his login blocked.”
 
Oddly enough I hold a strange affection for Tom.  I sort of liked him.  He was a miserable excuse for a denier but he wrote fairly well.
 
Not oddly. You both share the delusion that you can rewrite history from your lazy boy, with the help of GOOGLE!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:01pm
Ryan, Pardero thinks you need to get married.  I agree, getting laid would help you immensely.
Carole McKee Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:03pm
Jeffrey: LOL!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:04pm
@EXPAT:
Not oddly. You both share the delusion that you can rewrite history from your lazy boy, with the help of GOOGLE!”
 
I thought you were the expert on Google.....or is that Wikipedia?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:05pm
I try and have a way with words, Carole.
 
:)
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:06pm
Jeffrey, pity the poor woman! 
 
Can you imagine the Ryanitos that would come of it?
 
The Horror
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:11pm
Pardero,
 
Here is General Washington on profanity.  Judge whether he thought it was virtuous.
 
"The General is sorry to be informed  that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice heretofore little known in an American army, is growing into a fashion; he hopes the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it, and that both they and the men will reflect that we can have little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our arms, if we insult it by impiety and folly; added to this, it is a vice so mean and low, without any temptation, that every man of sense and character detests and despises it."
 
Also, here are Washington's 110 rules of civility for himself, which he practiced.   He would be abhorred at what passes for virtue nowadays. 
 
If you think these four loved their families and countries, then so did Hitler, and we ought to give him a pass.
 
John Quincy Adams talked about the difference of Islam and Christianity. Our morals were just as I advocate, as recently as 1947, before the Kinsey report was released.  These aren't Muslim morals, they are Christian ones.
 
I apologize for the repetition, but freedom and liberty are impossible without virtue.
 
The Founders were not a bunch of Deists. 
 
Also, please assure me, that as you are assessing the Founders, you have read at least five of the 204 Founders biographies?  If not, how can you be certain that your view of them is correct, and is not revisionist history, which we have been being fed a steady dose of in the last five decades?
 
I don't have to gain converts.  I simply have to take the leftist and lukewarm conservative leaders and demolish them.  "First you win the argument, then you win the vote". Margaret Thatcher. 
 
"I have always been of the opinion that unpopularity earned by doing what is right is not unpopularity at all but glory"
Cicero
 
That's interesting that you believe pursuing a wife is necessary for standing.  The most influential man in history died a virgin.    I'll listen to one of the most powerful men in the past century on the topic of celibacy, though he was too extreme for me.  He wasn't even Christian and had massive results with the concept. 
 
I recommend you not engage in impudent and impertinent speculation.  The Bible never says that marriage or being single is superior.  It simply says to be content in both stations. 
 
The Apostle Paul wrote this in 1 Corinthians 7.
 
[7] For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
[8] I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
[9] But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
[10] And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
[11] But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
[12] But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
[13] And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
[14] For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
[15] But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
[16] For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
[17] But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:12pm

[18] Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
[19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
[20] Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
[21] Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
[22] For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
[23] Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
[24] Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
[25] Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
[26] I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.
[27] Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
[28] But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
[29] But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
[30] And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
[31] And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.
[32] But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:13pm
Ooh, look, Ryan turned on the Bible babble.
 
On that note I’m off to bed.
Pardero Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:16pm
Jeffrey Kelly,
EXPAT is only "toying" with us "low intellect average guys." Obviously he has half his brain tied behind his back to make it a more fair contest.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:19pm
I especially want to draw your attention to the EXTREME APOSTLE PAULS words in vs. 7 and in 32.
[7] For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
 
[32] But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
 
Paul said he wishes all men were single like  him, but he said if people were single, they were married to God.  Nowhere in the Bible is it looked upon as a curse to not be married.  But in our hedonistic society a life spent in abstaining from sex is considered joyless and loveless.  Quite nonsensical. 
 
It's interesting how you arbitrarily decide what is proper and my obligation.  Arbitrary decrees are the marks of a tyrant.  The Bible says nothing close to what you are saying, and indeed, the two greatest men in the NT, Jesus and Paul both died virgins, so I'm afraid you must be hallucinating in mandating marriage and children for righteousness.  Not sure what Bible you are reading.
 
Andrew Carnegie married at age 52.  Perhaps you simply need to learn more of history, so you can understand enough to make a reasoned judgement on these matters.  Fitting in with the current debauched culture is a very bad idea, indeed. 
 
FYI, the churches are broken, and it's actually more dangerous to find a wife in a church now, than it is to find a prostitute and redeem her.  I know, I already did it, and now she is married with two children, and no longer in that career.  Though she was not for me, she is a wonderful woman, and will be an amazing mother.  Her children will always think fondly of me, though they aren't mine. 
 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:26pm
Jeffrey,  I am definitely opposed to banning Ryan.

What if we instead
 
made him lick grape jelly off of thunderdick's butcrack.
 
Would that be ok?
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:29pm
Since repetition is the mother of learning, I'll post this for a last time for Mufasa's edification.
 
Thanks for reminding me, Travil.  You are unfit to converse with.  Willfully ignorant, petulant, profane, and wicked.  Those are objective assessments that 100% of those with objective opinions on earth agree with.  That goes for Badlose, and Michka too.  All three of your comments, along with Stone's will be deleted from my post from here on out, and none of you will be responded to.  Since no one of substance on WB ever really talks to you four, you can have a get along gang where you can all inspire each other with your latest corrupt ideas.  Mufasa will be included on that list, so will FJ.  The rest of us will learn and progress.   You six will be left in your stale, static, stagnant state.  You are welcome to join the rest of us when you learn history, and civility, but until then, love dictates you need to be left alone.   
 
It's time to leave you corrupt children to your wicked devices.  You've been warned.  Scorners and scoffers hate to be corrected, and love to be flattered.
 
They say adversity always contains the seeds of the cure.  How true. 
James Travil Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:29pm
Remember, we have been "warned"--by the mouse that roars! 
EXPAT Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:33pm
Mustafa Kemal the Intellectual speaks wisdom:
Jeffrey,  I am definitely opposed to banning Ryan.

What if we instead
 
made him lick grape jelly off of thunderdick's butcrack.
 
Would that be ok?
Ryan Messano Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:35pm
Pursuing sex like dogs at the expense of learning is why we have so many liberals.  The communists knew if you get a society into drugs and sex, they are simple to mislead.  And many of you aren't even ashamed of it.   You are proud of it, and you think I ought to be ashamed for not being corrupted.  LOL.  Fat chance that will happen.  Thank you, BUT NO THANK YOU!  The trip to Pleasure Island is never without a stiff cost.
 
Here are the 45 goals of the Communist party in 1963, and many of you love their goals today, and don't realize you are nearly full blown Communists already, without your knowledge.
Flying Junior Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:04am
Jeffrey,
 
Since this thread is more about free speech than solely about the homophobic clown, Ryan M.  Here goes.  On another blog, I learned that General Kelly was more than a little bit upset by Trump's misguided remarks against NATO yesterday.  This is my version of free speech.
 
As far as General Kelly...  Of course an Army general would support NATO.

WTF is wrong with these unpatriotic, crazy RW fascist idiots that they would support a dumb fucking whoremonger who is in love with the KGB dictator Putin instead of our European allies for seventy years in the form of NATO?

Y'all are just like the German patsies that supported Hitler in the 1930s, except that there is no excuse anymore.

Trump is creaming on the toilet dreaming about Russian whores.
Flying Junior Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:05am
EXPAT,
 
What's with this over-the-top gay sex meme?
opher goodwin Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:10am
There's certainly an insanity around in the minds of these hypocritical religious extremists who support Trump.
I was just reading about the reports on his cocaine fuelled parties where he hired in lots of young girls from agencies for sex with him and his middle-aged friends.
This is what these blind fools deny. Of course Trump is a moral man who can do no wrong - like fuck.
EXPAT Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:41am
FJ.
What's with this over-the-top gay sex meme?
If you are referring to the ass jelly, that is Jeffrey Kelly's opening to the article.
If you are referring to the smears against Ryan, that is Michka and Kemal's revenge on Ryan.
If you are referring to my jest of Fernando as the Gay Dracula, that was due to his effeminate look in a cape. Or was that another post?
In any event, it is all child's play!
Mark Hunter Added Jul 12, 2018 - 6:58am
As much as I dislike personal attacks, the whole point of WB is free expression from every side. It's pretty much as simple as that. I don't understand the point of sticking around if you disagree with that simple rule.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jul 12, 2018 - 7:43am
I don't understand the point of sticking around if you disagree with that simple rule.
 
Ding ding ding we have a winner!
 
Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 8:01am
Ryan M-- I've been way too busy these past few months to even turn on my computer, let alone have the leisure to read postings on the interwebs. BUT I got an email from Autumn and saw YOUR HORSESHIT and it cannot go unchallenged.
 
The 1st Amendment states among other things, " Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech.."  NO WHERE DOES IT STATE OR IMPLY, that said "speech" must be virtuous.
 
You go on to conflate the personal opinions of the "founders" into the supreme law of the land.  YOU'RE, in a word, an idiot. You're doing the same shit that Obama did with his "signing statements".
 
"That damn piece of paper" wasn't written for the founders personal enjoyment, it was written for all citizens of these United States, with few exceptions such as women and blacks.  We The People did correct those mistakes, eventually.
 
You miss the whole point of what FREEDOM entails.  Whether I agree or disagree with a position (virtuous or not) is not the point.  I am born with the unalienable right to speak my mind. 
 
Only through public discourse can the ideas, values or mores I present be challenged.  Without said, we are no different than the Soviets or modern day China with their "social scoring".
 
WE HAVE NO CIVIC DUTIES!  That's exactly what Communism teaches, NO thank you.  Society has no rights, it never did.
 
Here, educate yourself on our Supreme Law, not the bullshit you're peddling:
 
List Of Supreme Court Hate Speech Cases
 
In each of these 6 cases, the freedom of speech was protected, EVEN IF VILE AND HATEFUL.
 
NO where does "virtue" enter this arena.
 
"Freedom is not for the weak or uninitiated" ~Gerri B
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 9:44am
There is the spirit of the law, Golly Gee, and there’s the letter of the law.  You neglect the former at the expense of the latter.  
 
You profane types are the most offended by the truth, because your entire way of living is challenged.  
 
Go read the National Review article above where Joseph Story, a Founder, says it isn’t for everyone to say anything. Are you stupid or something?  You are very slow, and like most slow people attempt to use profanity to make up for your lack of intellect.  Profanity is the sign of a weak mind, a weak argument, or both, as in your case.  
 
Then you mangle my arguments into being something close to what Obama does.  Boy are you deluded.
 
“The Constitution was written for a moral and a religious people.  It can govern no other”. John Adams.  In other words, Golly Gee, IT WASNT WRITTEN FOR DEBAUCHED SCOUNDRELS LIKE YOU.  Go move to China if you can’t appreciate our morality and virtue.  The biggest atheist nation on earth will teach you to appreciate Americas Christian heritage.  Foolish people like you only learn from personal experience.
 
You silly twit, freedom is impossible without virtue.  How do you get so delusional? You are so blind, and confident too.
 
Then you stupidly compare us with the godless Marxist types of China and Russia’s past.  Totally duped.  
 
Im used to your type.  Instead of listening to your stupidity, I target the root of it, which is your gross ignorance, and corrupt habits.  Your comments tell me you are one or more of three things,
1) How many psychotropic drugs have you used?
2) Why can’t you contain sex in marriage between a man and a woman, and why are you bleating about freedom when you are a slavery to yourself, which is the worst slavery?
3) Why are you preaching on the Founders ideas, you dogmatic degenerate, when you’ve never read five of their biographies? 
 
SCOTUS has erred in mangling the moral component of free speech. Legalizing porn, which is a likely root of your blind belligerence, was totally bogus, in 1969.
 
 
Keep your mouth shut, Golly Gee, and go to your library and read, you silly dunce, and quit wasting my time.  
 
Also, I won’t be responding to you again, unless you confirm you’re not on psychotropic drugs, you don’t use porn, and you’ve read five biographies of the Founders.  The problem with the internet is that every Tom, Dick, and Harry now thinks their opinion is Gospel truth and has to be disabused of that notion.  
 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:05am
Mark,
 
I don’t understand why you are content commenting on the Constitution, when you’ve never bothered to learn the ideals of the men who wrote it?  
 
This is not a problem you can solve with a Google search, so spare me the Google nonsense about the Founders I’ve seen hundreds of times.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:09am
Badlose, there is an insanity in the minds of those commenting on American politics from other countries, who have never learned out history, and can’t comprehend Hillary and Obama ware the worst Presidential Candidates and worst  Presidents, respectively, in our entire history.  Stay off Google.  Your type frequently runs there to reinforce your brainwashing, and Google is all too happy to oblige. 
 
There is zero evidence Trump used drugs, and you are easily suckered by lamestream nonsense.  
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:41am
Jeffrey,
Enjoyed the article and for the most part agree. 
 
Deleting:
If I disagreed on any point in the article, it would be simply one of personal preference.  My delete policy is less restrictive.  I'll delete any comment that is overly abusive or vulgar; especially if its sole intent is to be abusive and vulgar with no relation to the post or another comment.  To date only one person consistently fits that bill.  And I don't hesitate to pick up and discard his poo/comments.
 
The delete function is (in my opinion) the minimum tools needed to keep your threads sane and readable.  I don't think I would be as keen on WB as I am if it were not there.
 
But then maybe we're a bit closer than I think since "The only person [you] ever deleted was John G. and only because he persisted in his attacks."  That is where I find myself and it seems where many of you guys on the left find yourselves.
 
If you’re not willing to use the delete function… your trashed thread is your own damn fault.
 
Where I Stand:
As I sated in the Fernando post... I don't think anybody mentioned should be banned; not Ryan, not Michka, not Opher or anybody else listed by anybody else.
 
Administration:
While I agree that Autumn has done a superb job in regulating this site; let's not pretend that nobody has ever been banned.  I'm aware of only one, John G.  So, a line does exist and can be crossed.  There was a rumor that he returned under another name... but I never saw him.  Plus, I have seen Autumn suspend accounts seeking to correct behavior.
 
EXPAT >> Autumn blocks the login of people she wants gone from the site. Members never know if he just left or had his login blocked.
 
You know... this may happen more often than we think. :)  So and so just decides to go away... or did they?
 
It's like the old (conservative) joke about somebody crossing the Clintons.  If you found yourself on the outs with that little cartel, best to immediately hold a press conference and make it very clear that you are happy and have no intent of killing yourself any time soon.  Also avoid air travel for a while... or being in public at all for that matter.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
I read Mustafa's comment and agreed with a lot of the latter half... particularly "On the other hand, although we could leave the responsibility to controlling content on a thread to the post owner, I dont think this is really wise, since most posters dont want to censor... IMO, a lot the responsibility is with us.  Maybe a “ban from commenting on my thread” button might be very useful here."
 
A lot of you guys are finding yourselves in a position I found myself in months ago with Jeff Michka.  My solution has been 1) Mostly ignore him (just pretend he never commented) 2) Every now and then post a standard comment calling him out for what he is (a troll) and 3) Every now and then put on the rubber gloves and clean up his comments.
 
Leroy gave me advise very early on... the likes of Michka are a distraction on your thread.  Delete them.  It was good advice.
 
I would support the "ban from commenting on my thread" option.  I would use it.  BUT why would those who are loathe to use the little red x going to use the BIG RED X.  I guess the logic is like killing someone with a bomb vs a knife.  Less personal, you don't have to look them in the eye when doing it. :)
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Opher >> I neither want people banned neither do I delete stuff off my threads...
 
Opher, when you do this stuff it drives me crazy.  I don't know if you've ever deleted a comment... but you damn sure called for Ryan to be banned in Fernando's thread.
 
"Yes I'd support that. Ban the boy! Ban the Troll! He's as extreme as ISIS and he's polluting this site with his foulness. I don't think this place can function while he's cluttering up the place with his invective.  Come on Autumn - in the name of intelligence..." -- Opher Goodwin
 
"This site would be better off without him. I hope Autumn kicks his arse down the road. He's driving sane people away." -- Opher Goodwin
 
Try being consistent Opher…
 
I called for the likes of Jeff Michka to be banned in my post, A Writer Beat Fairy Tale (one of my best).  I got about as much traction as you guys have wi
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:41am
Paul Haus,
Well said sir.  I really like your take on the 1st Amendment.  It gets back to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
 
The 1st Amendment is indeed under constant attack today.  Our founding fathers added protection of the free press but never imagined the press would voluntarily march into servitude to an ideology.  This leaves a void (nobody being called out) that encourages intimidation and suppression of speech.
 
I see it as just one more sign of a dying republic and civilization.
Tom C. Purcell Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:58am
Charles Gully a.k.a. Expat, among other aliases, 
 
3. Tom Purcell is gone. No loss. Autumn blocks the login of people she wants gone from the site. Members never know if he just left or had his login blocked
 
Tom checks back once in awhile but posts elsewhere for the most part.  I aim to reach intelligent, educated, critical-thinking people (of which there are still a few on WB), so I have only the occasional need for this site.
Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:07am
Ryan M--- I have every right to my beliefs and the expression thereof.  If you don't like these unalienable rights I was born with, change that damn piece of paper.  And dearie, I don't run away from fights or challenges, so far you've presented neither.
 
I didn't equate our nation to communism BUT your delusional arguments and positions. And you're the idiot that can't tell the difference.
 
What the "founders" said privately or publicly does not negate what WE THE PEOPLE have decided "free speech" is, deal with reality.
 
I presented you 6 court challenges to our free speech and the Supreme Court agreed they were violations of our constitution.  There is only one caveat to said unalienable right, when it incites others to imminent lawless action(s).
 
The other point you can't fathom, is freedom of religion.  My personal beliefs aren't on trial here.  When you claim pornography is immoral your demagoguery is revealed.  Whilst in your own dwelling, you can allow it or not. In the public venue, you have no constitutional standing or authority.  Don't like it, change that damn piece of paper. Go ahead and try to enforce your morality upon me and you'll be sorry you had that notion.
 
Here, read up dearie:
 
It's Time to Stop Using the "Fire In a Crowded Theater"
 
In 1969, the Supreme Court's decision in Brandenburg v. Ohio effectively overturned Schenck and any authority the case still carried. There, the Court held that inflammatory speech--and even speech advocating violence by members of the Ku Klux Klan--is protected under the First Amendment, unless the speech "is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action".
 
"Today, despite the "crowded theater" quote's legal irrelevance, advocates of censorship have not stopped trotting it out as the final word on the lawful limits of the First Amendment. As Rottman wrote, for this reason, it's "worse than useless in defining the boundaries of constitutional speech. When used metaphorically, it can be deployed against any unpopular speech." Worse, its advocates are tacitly endorsing one of the broadest censorship decisions ever brought down by the Court. It is quite simply, as Ken White calls it, "the most famous and pervasive lazy cheat in American dialogue about free speech."
 
As for your propaganda piece from the National Review, what a silly argument and joke being posited into the public lexicon.
 
Here let me quote:
 
Our rights are essential to a republican form of government, because they enable “we the people” to deliberate. This is how public opinion, as expressed through the medium of representative government, becomes a benevolent sovereign of the nation. The same is true of civic virtue, for it implies not only a careful use of our rights but also a respect for — and deference to — the rights of others.
 
It's pure propaganda in support of the status quo.  Our representative government is not "sovereign", it is our servant.
 
We The People, grant it existence and limited authority to do our bidding.
 
And finally hon, I have a BA in History/ Constitutional Law.  Talk shit to those less educated.
 
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:15am
Ryan Messano,
As distasteful as I find the crudest forms of profanity, your slander of Gerrilea is far more offensive. 
 
Jefferson and Adams regretted their dirty campaigns, which you are emulating, but I don't believe either of them would have insulted a lady. Didn't Jefferson's campaign manager serve time for slander?
 
You make a big fuss over certain vulgar words, but they are just words, no matter how ugly. Your aspersions and slanders against Gerrilea and others are sickening, and bother me far more than a few gratuitous vulgar terms, that are actually impersonal, and not necessarily designed to inflict pain.
 
You like to speak of love, but you are intentionally cruel and vicious. Your un-Christian style is allowed, but in my mind, is far more disreputable than some crude profanity, that is often merely a tool to display outrage or strong emotion.
 
I will stipulate that you are a very well read man, but it is wasted, since you behave like a troll. Your gifts could be used to enlighten and persuade, but you seem to enjoy inflicting pain.
 
You would be aware that during Colonial times, their church was their social and political life. Many books have been written on the influence of deism on the Founding Fathers. That they showed a political/public side and a private side is really not remarkable, and is still the case with politicians. 
 
You are far from a dummy, and are disingenuous to deny the influence of deism in their principles and written words. Indeed, they were much inspired by the same Greek philosophers, that you so admire. As much as it must rankle you, "Nature's God" is a prominent and revealing term. A group statement allowed something that would have been possible political suicide, if attributed individually.
 
Like it or not, some of the Founders were deists in private, though they professed Christianity in public. I don't have a problem with either of those religions, and neither should you. Indeed, it is your dogmatism that seems to make you so abrasive. You have already read the philosophers that influenced deism. Discard a little more dogmatism, and you would make a fine Christian-deist.
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:16am
Tom C. Purcell,
I am glad to see that you are well!
Thank you for the update.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:25am
Hi Tom !
Paul Hosse Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:31am
TexasLynn, thank you. I am just one of many who see the US as a dying republic; not much different from the Late Rome Republic era. Of course, we know what the ancient Romans of the period didn't know, that it would end with a civil war, followed by Julius Caesar, his murder, another civil war (this time between two heir apparents, Mark Anthony and Octavius), and end with the imposition of a military dictatorship under Octavius as Augustus Caesar. Although Rome continued to pretend to be a republic for a while longer, the republican ideals faded with memory.   I wonder if that too is our fate.
Years ago I interviewed William Shirer. I asked him if fascism was dead and if not, where would it likely arise. He said that it was dead in Europe and Japan. He didn't think Russia would see another Stalin or China another Mao. However, if it did happen, it would be in the US. he said that we had all them ingredients for it. Whether it was from the Left or Right didn't matter; it was their actions that we needed to watch. That's what we're seeing now. BTW, I'm not "Haus". It's "Hosse" (rhymes with "posse"); a nice old Scandinavian name :) 
Tom C. Purcell Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:36am
Salutations, gentlemen!  Thank you Neil, Pardero, Jeffrey and friends for being respectful, fair, even kind in my apparent absence.
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:44am
Last part of my comment was cut off... 
 
I called for the likes of Jeff Michka to be banned in my post, A Writer Beat Fairy Tale (one of my best). I got about as much traction as you guys have with Ryan. Autumn basically told me that me having to put up with this prick (Michka) was a small price to pay for her overall inclusion policy. I've come to agree with her... I don't want Michka banned overall from the site. I do ask for consistency.
 
Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:49am
Pardero---Thank you for the support, hope all is well with you and TexasLynn...I've been really, really busy and have had no time to post anything.  It's nice to see you're both still here. 
 
I now see why that Ryan M character was physically removed from a city council meeting. Zealots and demagogues are truly blinded by their own BS.  He'll eventually run out of steam, like they all do.
 
Talk soon and take care,
~Gerri
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 12:14pm
Paul Hosse >> I am just one of many who see the US as a dying republic; not much different from the Late Rome Republic era...  I wonder if that too is our fate.
 
Paul, we're on exactly the same page.  I see mankind making the same mistakes over and over again.  No republic can survive forever because of our nature... we had a good run.
 
Paul Hosse >> Years ago I interviewed William Shirer. I asked him if fascism was dead...
 
I would hate to disagree with such a scholar; so, I won't.  Whether or not he is right or wrong about Europe, Asia or Russia I cannot say; but given enough time anything is possible.  He was definitely right about the U.S. though.  Fascism is alive and well and... dominate on the left.  The ones screaming "fascist" the loudest are indeed the biggest fascist.
 
Paul Hosse >>  Whether it was from the Left or Right didn't matter; it was their actions that we needed to watch.
 
I've always considered fascism a vehicle usable by any ideology.  (Yes, JK, I know you disagree) ...
 
Paul Hosse >> That's what we're seeing now. BTW,
 
If we had a free press this might have been avoided... as thing are it will go unchecked.  The press is just one more thing (a check and balance) the founding fathers counted on to keep us free.  They have failed us; horribly failed us.
 
Paul Hosse >> BTW, I'm not "Haus". It's "Hosse" (rhymes with "posse"); a nice old Scandinavian name :)
 
How I messed that up I have no idea... my apologies.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Gerrilea >> ...hope all is well with you and TexasLynn
 
Thank you.  I can't speak for Pardero... but I am doing well; one of the most blessed individuals on God's green earth.
 
Love my work, the fishing's been great, hunting season right around the corner, more content family and friends than I can shake a stick at...
 
Hope you find yourself the same. :)
Jeff Michka Added Jul 12, 2018 - 12:17pm
TraitorLynn toots his horn about how "tough" he's been with me.  But TraitorLynn is more upset about being called a rank hypocrite and traitor.  He always talks big, but that's a Texan, still smarting over Alaska being bigger.  He could write another article, telling us all about how awful anyone who protest is, since he loves America so much, then he can tell you about how the US needs to be broken up to accommodate his extremist rightist views.  If he can't see the contradiction, perhaps you can.  He loves being a superpatriot when he wants rightists patting him on the back, but denies his traitor status, also proclaimed as an attempt to boost his right wing extremist creds.  "I'm more rightwing than you are, exclaims TraitorLynn, "and I delete people I won't answer and don't like their words, but I BELIEVE IN THE 1st Amendment."  Sure you do, TRAITORLYNN...as much as you believe in America.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 12:48pm
I want to thank you all for commenting.  I don’t have time to catch up on everything right now but I will.
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 1:00pm
Pardero >> Like it or not, some of the Founders were deists in private, though they professed Christianity in public.
 
Somewhere In Between:
I don't think there is much debate on that subject since you used the word “some”.  Some didn't even bother with the public face on the issue.
 
I don't think there is any doubt/debate that our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles; any more than the fact that our founding fathers ran the gamut for atheist to fundamentalist Christians.
 
People like me (and Ryan) like to put the founding fathers on a Christian pedestal and others (who I will not name) like to tear them down into abject atheist (or maybe the better metaphor is an atheist pedestal).  Somewhere in the middle is the truth.
 
Deism:
Deist included the likes of Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine if I'm not mistaken.  Fundamentalist Christians included Patrick Henry and Samual Adams; and then there were those who were in-between like John Adams and George Washington.
 
God bless them every one for what they gave us. :)
 
Deism, as I have understood it, is the belief in a creator who kind of wound the universe up and let her loose, taking no direct involvement in events.  Since this belief does not involve "Christ" (or denies his divinity) they would not be Christians in the strict definition of the word.
 
I (TexasLynn) was a deist in my early adulthood... until God knocked me upside the head a few times and (figuratively) said, "No, doofus, I AM directly involved and not just on the grand scale but with you... otherwise you would have stumbled off a cliff or been eaten by a cow a long time ago..." :)
Carole McKee Added Jul 12, 2018 - 1:07pm
Guys, try to be kind to Ryan M. I feel sorry for him. Such a lonely, depressed man probably has no friends, no female companionship, and probably not even a pet to love him unconditionally. When someone spews his kind of vicious nastiness, it's an indication of a lonely, pathetic life. WB is probably all he has. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 1:37pm
 
Welcome back, Tom.  Good to see you. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 1:57pm
If I’m anything I think Deist is probably close.  I can’t discount the possibility of God I’m just not sure he/she/it cares.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:06pm
Golly Gee, you don't have the right to your own facts.  That's your problem.  You have few facts that pertain to issues, and then you pronounce sweeping decrees which naturally get slapped down, and then you get indignant, talking about 'muh rights'.  LOL.  You have the right to educate your brain before speaking, or your nonsense will be destroyed.
 
Your 'unalienable rights' came from your Creator.  You ungratefully refuse to recognize the latter, and demand the former, you wretched ingrate.  You can't have your cake and eat it too. 
 
You came to a machine gun fight with a pea shooter.  Maybe you don't realize you are outclassed, as you are an ahistorical dunce, but those of us who know history do  know it.  Lucky for you, WB has a lot of people like you too. 
 
My arguments have nothing to do with communism, and you are the first person on WB to come up with that absurd idea.  The minds of you leftists are always coming up with new absurd rubbish. 
 
You are a typical ARROGANT, CONCEITED, AND DISDAINFUL leftist.  Slapping your type down is good exercise.  Listen to what you just said, "What the "founders" said privately or publicly does not negate what WE THE PEOPLE have decided "free speech" is, deal with reality."  What that means, is 'To hell with what the Founders wanted, we know better than them'.  No you stupid dunce, you don't.  You are part of the DUMBEST GENERATION IN AMERICAN HISTORY, YOU STUPID TWIT, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.  You've been doing drugs, having sex outside of marriage, using porn, and watching television you corrupt dimwit.  Learn some humility so I don't have to slap you down so badly.  You know nothing of history.  Let's demonstrate really quickly for you.
 
Since the leftists here hate to be reminded of their ignorance with demands about how they "read five biographies of America's Founders", we will throw a change up.  Name 10 characters from Plutarch that the Founders knew well.  Name 10 generals from the Civil War.  Name the 9 SCOTUS justices.  You can't, you silly and impudent oaf.  You don't even know basic stuff, and you are tackling tough issues.  Stop trying to do algebra when you haven't completed kindergarten yet.  Don't open your mouth again without knowing what you are speaking of.  You have two ears and one mouth so you can listen twice as much as you talk.
 
Then we are on to your next bit of nonsense.  I presented you 6 court challenges to our free speech and the Supreme Court agreed they were violations of our constitution.  There is only one caveat to said unalienable right, when it incites others to imminent lawless action(s).
 
SCOTUS is not there to make up laws, they are there to judge the law.  Free speech was not created for your profanity.  Sorry!!!!  You are just not bright enough to know it.   Liberty and freedom are based on virtue, and for you to suggest that free speech was created to justify speech that corrupts virtue is just flat out stupid.
 
No you indoctrinated charlatan, pornography being evil is not just an opinion.  It's a fact.  Now, we need to know about your porn and drug habits.  Join the club of college educated 'experts' being thrashed by high school dropouts here on WB.  You have plenty of company.  Where did you get the idea you can pay for knowledge and wisdom?  They are all free at the library.  Why didn't that ever cross your mind?  Just because you got approval from liberal 'expert's' doesn't make you something.  Learn humility, it comes before honor.   Your education will be a lot less painful when you do.  Some of the college educated 'experts', can't take criticism from 'non-elite's', and they talk about needing 'high levels of discourse', take their toys, and beat feet off of here.  Your pretentious friend Alcoforado just did that.  Learn how we were Sexually Sabotaged.  The rape and crime rate has catastrophically exploded since porn was legalized, and we have to deal with clueless lukewarm types like you.  I just got back from a breakfast where a man recounted how his sixty year old wife was beaten brutally to death with a baseball bat by a 19 year old kid who had just got done beating a young woman in the head with a hammer 15 times three days before.  This woman was merely getting into  her car after
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:07pm
 
 
 doing Christmas shopping for her grandkids.  This didn't happen in the 1940's.  Wake the heck up!!!  The kid was definitely into porn and/or drugs. 
 
Are you done with your intellectual beat down, or are you proud and do you need more?  Because I can continue wiping the floor with you if you like.  Most of the time, your type resorts to lies, profanity, attacking jobs, or trying to get me banned.  What's it going to be? 
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:07pm
TexasLynn,
Thank you for that! You are far more knowledgable than I am on these subjects. 
 
I can't be certain what the future holds for me. My closest friends are devout Christians, but are tolerant enough to accept someone who does not profess any faith other than believing in God.
 
I am pleased that we understand each other's viewpoints so well.
I don't ever rule out my own knock to the side of the head, though I am reasonably comfortable at the moment.
Carole McKee Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:36pm
Ryan: Aha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haa!
 
By the way, I am a writer, so I spend a lot oftime alone, and I love every minute of my aloneness. I am not a vicious person. Go back a read all my posts on every site. I am the nice one. Then read your vicious nasty posts. So it's not even the pot calling the kettle black. It's the blackened, burnt-up pot calling the shiny new stainless steel kettle black.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:40pm
Often, with women, their view of themselves parts way with reality. 
 
I do not resent criticism, even when for the sake of emphasis; it parts for the time with reality.
Winston Churchill
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:41pm
Ryan,
re:"If you don't stand for something, Jeffrey, you'll fall for anything."
 
False dichotomy
 
If you never stop spouting logical fallacies, you will continue to do so.
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:47pm
Ryan, not to be picky but I think it’s against WB’s rules to add more than two comments in a row.  Would you like me to combine your above comments into one or two comments?  I can if you want.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:09pm
Carole, in Ryan we have an exquisite and extreme example of
projection, not just Jungian projection, but good old fashioned Freudian projection.  
 
Ryan, you appear very harsh tempered and overbearing. 
and fit the description of a 
Termagant: Quarrelsome and scolding or censoriousshrewish
very well.
 
Its good that you know how to be alone. I suspect you will need to  get used to it.
 
Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:12pm
Ryan M--- Pshaw, you know nothing of who I am or what I've experienced, accomplished or believe. TexasLynn and others knows what faith I hold, they took the time to ask me.
 
Why are you so desperate to make this personal?
 
You've not addressed the points made.  Why's that?  Can't handle the truth or facts as We The People have decreed?
 
Your arguments are exactly what the communists say.  You have a duty to society, to be respectful to your servants, ie government employees that include those we voted for.  It's an illusion, there is no such thing as "civil society". 
 
Now had you suggested we be polite to each other, I'd have agreed.  That's what Smith & Wesson is for. An armed society is a polite society.
 
In all your ramblings, your observations and diatribes miss the whole point on how our nation became what it is today.  Our freedoms nor our faith brought us to this moment...PROPAGANDA did.
 
A little book by Edward Bernays, born out of the alleged Progressive Christian movement at the turn of the last century that culminated in that book, copyrighted in 1928.
 
READ IT.
 
In that short 168 pg book, you're finally understand what you're fighting against. It's not me or Pardero or TexasLynn or anyone else here on WB, we are all victims of the same control mechanisms, whether we know it or not.
 
"Democracy is administered by the intelligent minority who know how to regiment and guide the masses."
 
Once you identify the problem, what solutions can you present to us?  Shutting down public conversation will only serve to isolate you, turning you into a pariah amongst your peers, to quote Alexis de Tocqueville.
 
Our "modern" wold could not exist without Edward Bernays' theology.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:14pm
That's fine, Jeffrey, as long as those who it is addressed to are identified.  I separate it to make sure the reader knows what comment it's addressed at.  I may have to imitate TexasLynn eventually.  His comments are easy to understand.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:15pm
Did anyone not hear me tell Mufasa I won't be responding to him until he takes his psychobabble spewing nonsense and reads five biographies of the Founders?  Jes' wonderin', because it doesn't look like he got the memo.  Can you read Mufasa?
Carole McKee Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:16pm
Mustafa: in Ryan we have an exquisite and extreme example of
projection, not just Jungian projection, but good old fashioned Freudian projection. 
Yes, I can detect that as well. And I believe the only attention he gets is negative. So sad.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:20pm
Gerrilea, your ideas give you away.  Your words tell me what you've done, even in private, I just try to be discrete on here. 
 
"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truth"
Sherlock Holmes

I love Conan Doyle.  Reason is so powerful and can extrapolate the greatest conclusions from the most minute details, if you know what to look for. 
 
I agree with Bernay's, and I have started my own news site to fight back.
 
It's a matter of spreading it.  I already have thousands reading it, and donors are willing to give me thousands to update it too.  It will be a Breitbart that is further to the right.  Any suggestions or ideas are welcome.
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:28pm
@Ryan Messano:
”And why am I not shocked that Jeffrey doesn't want to ban anyone when he tolerates the most gross and disgustingly vile joke at the beginning of his post, and think's its not only acceptable, but laudable?”
 
I think it’s funny as hell.  Sometimes humor springs from making us uncomfortable.
 
“If you don't stand for something, Jeffrey, you'll fall for anything.”
 
I stand for free speech.  Don’t knock it, it’s the thing that is allowing you to comment so extensively on my article.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:30pm
Ryan, here are your comments:


Pardero,  I'm busy working, and it's exhausting to deal with your nonsense.  Does that sound rude?  Good!!  Because it's rude for you to continue bleat your opinions without knowing anything of the Founders who made the laws.  That's very rude, and I'm very offended by your impudence. 






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:12pm







Impressive Paul.  Knowing Caesar and Shirer.  I still disagree with your verdict of free speech, but I agree with your last comment.






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:14pm







Golly Gee, standing up for authoritarianism, like the proud leftist he/she is. 
 
Go learn history, you offended and impertinent type. 
 
Claims you are for freedom of speech while enthusiastically shutting mine down.






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:16pm







Carole, I am never less alone than when alone.  Pity the poor person who has never learned to enjoy solitude.  If you can't be happy alone, you are nothing but a poor sycophant, prostituting out truth for others approval.






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:17pm







Further, I'd rather be celibate, never marry, and have no kids than to marry a vicious harpy like you.

Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:32pm




Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:18pm







Keep talking Carole, and I think I will dub you the WB termagent.  Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:18pm







*termagant.






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:20pm







 
You're getting it now, Pardero.






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:26pm







Pardero: my job is to disturb the comfortable and to comfort the disturbed.






Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 2:31pm







And why am I not shocked that Jeffrey doesn't want to ban anyone when he tolerates the most gross and disgustingly vile joke at the beginning of his post, and think's its not only acceptable, but laudable? 
 
If you don't stand for something, Jeffrey, you'll fall for anything.
 
I’ll delete the above.

Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:33pm
Ryan M-- Wow, so you are truly tilting at windmills. As for your personal attacks, meaningless and irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You need our support and clearly you'll never get it.
 
If you can't convince the handful of regular posters here on WB what makes you think you can inspire a movement?  Delusions of grandeur, nothing more.
 
When you hold the premise that others must be controlled for their own good, you will find that totalitarianism is the only "solution".  Ask the Soviets and the Chinese, surely they can give you helpful hints and pointers.
 
Better yet, take your own suggestion and move there, the Chinese will surely welcome you with open arms and sown mouth.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:36pm
Not tilting at windmills.
 
"First they ignore  you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win"
Gandhi
 
Besides those who are ahistorical and corrupt, I am pretty good at convincing people. 
 
Please research the Millgram experiment.  People are controlled with laws.  The question is are we going to choose good or bad laws.
 
You move to China.  They are the world's biggest atheist nation.  You'd fit right in.  They'd beat you silly, and you'd learn to comply.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 12, 2018 - 3:40pm
Ryan,
 
re:"Did anyone not hear me tell Mufasa I won't be responding to him until he takes his psychobabble spewing nonsense and reads five biographies of the Founders?"
 
Oh yes, I  certainly did as did many others. So, why are you responding?
 
"Can you read Mufasa?"
 
regarding that memo,  you seem to confuse being able to read with complying with your demands.  You might want to include a little reading on  Deduction. Its not history, it has to do with how to think and reason.
 
Mustafa
Jeff Michka Added Jul 12, 2018 - 4:11pm
Awww...Poor TraitorLynn, like his political/patriotic hypocrisy, seems to figure he has no blame for getting his shit shoved back at him.  It's okay for him to write articles critical of people, make accusations, but IT's not HIS fault.  Like most rightists, he can acknowledge his end of things, and would try and tries to convince you he is like "driven snow in shitty East Tex ass,"  And he's not somebody I's ever want to associate with or like.  Looks like we got ourselves another pair of cowboy boots, probably another one still upset Alaska is bigger.  Own up, TraitoLynn, it might lower your "hypocrisy factor."
Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 4:13pm
Ryan M--- Now you equate yourself with Gandhi?  LMFAO. Are you on a vision quest to save the enslaved masses? Only to enslave them into your personal ideology along the way, perhaps?
 
My personal faith isn't on trial here. How many times do I have to say this until you understand and accept it?
 
You will never attain what you desire. Why's that? Humanity is waking to the lies, manipulations and deceit.  Conscious, once raised, can never be lowered.  
 
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 4:25pm
RYAN said>  "I just try to be discrete on here" Does he jest?
 
To whom it may concern:
Sitting in front of me are three A. Conan Doyle books, gifts from my late brother's kids.
The Green Flag & Other Stories  copyright 1900
The Adventures of Gerard 1903
Sir Nigel 1906
 
Conan Doyle was a masterful story teller.
 
Hey Moriarty, stop clubbing Gerrilea with Doyle's words.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 12, 2018 - 4:30pm
Ryan, I dont think I ever saw a full response from you to Jeffrey's post.
 
Would you mind? I would like to hear it. In particular, can you couch your response with respect to the actual content of his post? 
 
Because, as far as I can tell, and please correct me if I am wrong,
but all I seem to get is
 
1) you support banning people from WB
2) you do not support banning Ryan
3) the distinction between bannable and nonbannable is virtue
 
Did I get that right. 
 
Mustafa
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 4:32pm
"The only thing that's new, is the history you don't know" Truman.
 
This is why so many ideas on this post are new to you.  Stay off Google, and you don't know anything.  Yet, you proudly think your opinion carries weight.  It doesn't. 
 
You can't even read!!!
 
What did I just get done saying above?
 
This is the problem with most of you liberals and non Christian types.  No one ever loved you enough to hold you accountable and to correct you.
 
And I repeat!
 
Also, I won’t be responding to you again, unless you confirm you’re not on psychotropic drugs, you don’t use porn, and you’ve read five biographies of the Founders.  The problem with the internet is that every Tom, Dick, and Harry now thinks their opinion is Gospel truth and has to be disabused of that notion.  
 
Now, keep your profane mouth shut, and follow basic directions.  You don't like being talked to like that?  Tough!!  You act and talk like an animal and a child, you'll be treated like it. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 4:42pm
Someone please help Mufasa out.  He's on his Uriah Heep question Jihad again. 
 
I would appreciate it if someone can sit him down and help him read the above comment.  He appears to be having problems comprehending. Thank you!!
 
Did anyone not hear me tell Mufasa I won't be responding to him until he takes his psychobabble spewing nonsense and reads five biographies of the Founders?
Doug Plumb Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:06pm
I think almost everyone is nuts on here with the exception of Pardero and Mefobills, and to an extent, The Burgdale Heritage. I wonder if maybe they are doctors, wanting to know how bad it really is. Myself, I question my sanity every now and then, but I've never had "treatment" or been arrested. I'm still not completely convinced that I'm not nuts.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:07pm
I don't think anyone should be censored.
 
Doug Plumb Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:08pm
Gerrilea isn't nuts either.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:09pm
:), Well, we see as we are, not as things are:).
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:09pm
Jeff Michka >> Awww...Poor TraitorLynn...
 
Michka, have you noticed that NOBODY, NOOOOBOOODY... has replied or commented on any of your $#@^... Does that even remotely clue you in to the fact that NOBODY is paying it/you any mind?  And not just this post... ANY post. 
 
How many replies do you get per 100 comments.  One?  Two?  LMAO... In all of WB... No, no... in all of the Internet, you are the king... of clueless morons.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:09pm
Neither is Tom. I guess I could add a few more if I thought about it.
Carole McKee Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:28pm
Ryan: I copied and pasted your assessments of me and sent it to all my friends and acquaintances, including all of my employees. They all said you are a misogynist, and that you are indeed a vicious person. They laughed and said there is no way you could know me, because everything you said about me is just not true. They asked me if you were a miserable, unhappy, angry homosexual. I said I'd ask you. So are you?
Jeff Michka Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:30pm
TraitorLynn shows his extreme anger with his "nobody likes you, walk away" crap.  Hey, does that work in one of your cowboy bars you frequent?  Oh, I bet it does.  And I'm so ashamed my articles don't draw bigly huge comments, but that seems a big deal for "Mr. IT," who sees everything in FACEDBOOK TERMS.  Doesn't alter or lessen you Hypocrisy, TraitorLynn.  And I  don't need comments and replies to know some wonder about you and really what TraitorLynn is all about.  Are you just another internet bully/jerkoff? So it appears.  And gee, that's Texas talk.  Tell WB about your bumpersticker revolt you're brewing, then tell 'em how much you just Love America, you total hypocrite from the "All hat, no cattle" crowd you hand bumperstickers out to.  You're just a real Sam Huston.  Choose your side, online coward.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:30pm
 
Ryan,
re:Now, keep your profane mouth shut, and follow basic directions.  You don't like being talked to like that?  Tough!! "
 
Where did you get that idea? 
 
Does that mean you are not going to fully repond to Jeffrey's post?
 
I sure would like for you to explain why you shouldnt be banned but the fab four should. 
 
Mustafa
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:31pm
Excellent observation, Texas.  It's actually almost better than banning him.  Being humiliated by having no one respond when you talk to everyone is a pretty good idea. 
 
Liberals do it to me, but that doesn't bother me, as they are deluded.
 
Some conservatives do it to me too, and I'm longsuffering.  Farther along, they'll know all about it. 
 
Speaking of free speech, the Democrats are a bunch of lying snakes.  Anyone who doubts it can watch the Peter Strzok hearing of today. Watching Strzok sit and try and say his attacks on Trump were justified because Trump had the guts to call out that fraud Muslim war hero father Khizr Khan just proves the Democrats ignorance is profoundly dangerous.  We now have FBI agents who think opposing the President is justified because he disagrees with the death cult of Islam.  Scary stuff. 
 
The Democrats lied, obfuscated, and enthusiastically groveled in front of Strzok.  It was hideous.  Every Democrat voter in America ought to be ashamed of themselves.  The liberals on here have opinions that don't count, as they can't compare the past to today, as they don't know much of anything about the past.  So, you have to ignore them. 
 
Hahahaha!!  Louie Gohmert asked that fraud Strzok how many times he sat in front of his wife and lied to her while he cheated on her!!!!!  Beautiful!!  Trey Gowdy had some memorable lines too.  I wish the Republicans would get up and verbally body slam this dimwit.  Oh, if only I were there, I'd destroy that lying serpent. 
 
When Gohmert asked his question some clueless Democrat hussy told Gohmert he had to go take his meds.  The Democrats would know about meds, they are nearly all on them.  Whenever someone responds to the truth by telling you to take your meds, which is a very common response from liberals on here, you can be assured they have experience.  They have to take their meds to keep their delusions in place.  IF they get off their meds, they can't cope with life, and are liable to do or say crazy things. 
 
Watch the lying Democrats at work.
 
It was beautiful to see Rep. Rep. Labrador ask Strzok what his definition of bias, and Strzok impudently gives it to him, and stupidly doesn't realize it perfectly describes his actions that the whole world can see.  Pretty stupid when you give a definition that describes you and everyone knows it but you.  Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. 
 
Democrat Rep. Cohen, one of the most reprobate members of Congress sings out that Strzok deserves a purple heart.  LOL.  Cohen's from Tennessee which is somewhat close to the Mississippi river, the site of Twain's Huckleberry Finn, and the characters of the Duke and Dauphin, two reprobate charlatans are about the same as Cohen and his fellow Democrat frauds.  Why the American people put up with these debauched frauds is beyond me.  If it weren't for our own ignorance and corruption, not one Democrat would be in office. 
 
Strzok's texts brazenly show his bias, yet he and the Democrat mercenaries  shamelessly and unblushingly claim he has no bias whatsoever.  LOL!!  This is what American stupidity gets us. 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:46pm
God bless you Carole:).  That's a logical fallacy known as the appeal to popular.  In Michka's case, no one wants to talk to him because he has a filthy mouth and nothing of consequence to say.  Not everyone wants to talk to me, but that's not because I'm profane or lying.  "No man is hated more than he who tells the truth" Plato.
 
You need to find new friends, as they are not telling you the truth.  It's very common when a truth teller comes along and tells someone the truth, they go running to friends and family, who promptly ridicule and deride the person who tells the truth so they can keep their position of power in the person's life.  And so, most people never find the truth.  Aristotle said courage was the first virtue, since only those who are brave will ever find the painful truth. 
 
As for my being a homosexual, I've been called one thousands of times, as it's standard operating procedure for the left.  I've never been attracted to anyone other than women, and certainly never did anything with anyone other than a woman.  But, I'm not pursuing any woman,  unless she loves God first.  I could care less how pretty she is and how flattering she sounds.  Pretty women are mostly death traps if they believe in birth control.  It's false advertising.  They advertise their beauty, which is designed to lead to marriage and children, but they are lying, and rarely want to get married and have children.  So it's bait and switch.  So, I stay away.  Lots of snakes are very pretty, but if you pet them, you get a nasty and life threatening bite.   
Jeff Michka Added Jul 12, 2018 - 5:51pm
Everything gets the Ryan extremist right wing crap,   It gives him a chance to use his usual moralist rants and say things rightist just Love.  Funny, but thought this thread was about Free Speech and outing those that would deny it.  Ryan jumps right in!!!  The Californ  Hold those legs together, Messano.  Don't want anyone to have to work too hard nailing you down, so to speak.  The California Geezus mounts his cross again.
Carole McKee Added Jul 12, 2018 - 6:06pm
Ryan: First of all, when you start insulting people, you are not necessarily telling the truth. You are expressing your opinion. 
 
You need to find new friends, as they are not telling you the truth.  It's very common when a truth teller comes along and tells someone the truth, they go running to friends and family, who promptly ridicule and deride the person who tells the truth so they can keep their position of power in the person's life.  And so, most people never find the truth.  Aristotle said courage was the first virtue, since only those who are brave will ever find the painful truth.  Now, since you don't know me, or any of my friends and family, making a statement like this is ludicrous. I am known as being kind, patient, and generous to everyone. Just ask my employees. We don't have any sick days, but when one of them takes off for sickness or injury, I pay them out of my own pocket. When I lived in Florida, I cooked all day on Saturday and passed meals out to people in my community who I knew didn't have money to eat every day. I could go on, but why bother. Someone as hateful and mean as you are, doesn't get it anyway.
 
As for my being a homosexual, I've been called one thousands of times, as it's standard operating procedure for the left.  I've never been attracted to anyone other than women, and certainly never did anything with anyone other than a woman. But are these said women ever attracted to you? Hmmm?
 
Just keep in mind, you started this with me. Every time I post anything on anybody's article, you attack me. Other than expressing my opinion, I can't think of any reason for that.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 6:06pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^The conversational speed bump is strong in this one.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 6:18pm
Bottom line, Ryan.
I told you that I would oppose any attempt to suppress you because to me the idea of free speech is sacred.  The world needs all viewpoints, yours, mine, Tom Purcell, Texas Lynn, Mustafa, Carole's, etc.
 
Would you do the same?
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 6:31pm
Hello, Doug Plumb!
I don't want to see anyone banned, either. I think we could avoid responding to obvious thread hijackings, and possibly use delete sparingly. An 'ignore' function is problematic.
 
 
Zerohedge bans 'racist' and 'antisemitic' comments(though they seem to only enforce if comments are particularly vicious), which makes Writer Beat the most open forum on the internet.
 
I have seen some notable authors, that were highly critical of neocons and Zionists, disappear from ZH(Jack Burton and Francis Sawyer, for example), but I am unaware of the exact circumstances. A prominent and well-spoken racialist(Travis) disappeared years ago. MEFOBILLS just calmly states facts and mostly describes monetary theory, along with some racialist views, and although he mentions names and ethnicity, remains a member.
 
I hope that our distinction of most open forum is preserved, and so far, Autumn leaves that up to us.
I hope to see a new article from you soon.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 7:18pm
Carole, it's called groupthink.  We have many echo chambers in America, which are dangerous, because people just shut out who don't agree with them, and include those who do.  These safe spaces are very dangerous.  LOL @ bullyproof windows.  "Everyone likes me and thinks I'm great".  LOL. 
 
Everyone certainly doesn't think I'm great, but I'm not relying on people's evaluation of me, I'm relying on God's evaluation and history.  Objective truth is rarely contained in people's opinions who are ahistorical. 
 
Most people believe they are good people.  The wise and good people know they are bad, and never talk about how good they are.  You've never heard me talk about how good I am on here.  The reason why is because I know how bad I am, and I have to work on it daily.  Many on WB think they are good, and actually are bad.  Those who know they are bad, are actually the best people. 
 
I've had plenty of women be attracted to me.  Women are attracted to confidence and strong men.  I'm no slouch in either department.  However, they are attracted to men who are deeply attracted to them, and I am not interested in many of them.  The vast majority of women in California have their looks alone to recommend them, and that is simply not appealing to me.  There are tens of millions of beautiful women in the world, and their beauty fades.  Also, most women are looking for a man to financially take care of them, and they want their job, and to travel.  That is simply not compatible with what I'm looking for.  So, if I have to stay single, that's fine.  I'll take care of a woman, but I'm not looking for a fellow employee, I'm looking for a woman who wants to have children and raise and love them, while being a wife.  Since the vast majority of women have zero interest in this, I don't expect myself to be a woman magnet, and while it initially bothered me that women are attracted to men who cheat on them, abuse them, and mistreat them, while they spurn men who actually intend to honor them and cherish them, I'm over it.  Most women never had honorable men in their lives, so they simply don't know what good and bad is.  Many of their fathers were into porn, so these women, unconsciously, are looking for men who are into porn too, though many will never find out the father they adore was into porn.  However, while I pity their ignorance, I certainly am not going to marry one of them and have her destroy my life.  That simply will not happen. 
 
Also, persistence is appealing to a woman, and I'm sorry, I refuse to persistently pursue a woman just because she's pretty.  Also, the modern culture has brainwashed men and women to think bedroom appeal is what should guide your mate selection.  That's dumb, because married couples spend less than 1% of their time engaged in sex, and the other 99% is far more important.  That doesn't mean I'll marry a 300 lb woman, and I do think being healthy is important, as if you aren't healthy when you are a single woman, how Is it going to be when you have children, but looks aren't everything.  I cherish three traits.  Beauty, brains, and virtue. 
 
I've had many women throw themselves at me.  I didn't even have my profile on FB, but I had beautiful women, based on nothing other than my posts, which are much like on here, come in my inbox and offer to send me naughty pictures, and want to come sleep at my house.  I talked to them on the phone, and yes, they are real. I declined.  I had 5,000 connections on FB, most of the women were Godly too.  They just lived way far away.  Those kinds of women are rare in my area.  If sleeping with women were a pursuit I relished, I'd have become an expert, and I could easily have pretty much any woman I wanted.  But, I don't let my earthly appetites guide my mind, I have my mind guide my earthly appetites.  Experience has shown that pursuing all relations outside of marriage is very bad for the soul, which is why those on here who approve of it have rotten souls that need  healing. 
 
You simply have liberal views, Carole, and I attack those wherever I find them, no matter the gender.  You also use profanity quite a bit, which is very unladylike, and very unattractive to men of consequence, wisdom, and power. 
James Travil Added Jul 12, 2018 - 7:24pm
The way Lynn feels about Jeff Micha is exactly what I feel about lying Ryan. I generally just skip over his meaningless dog shit comments because they are full of lies, hypocrisy, and personal attacks, plus some historical revisionist garbage and Bible babble sprinkled in. Like Stone I fully intend to delete 100% of anything and everything he ever may try to post on any articles of mine. He is a through and through troll in true form. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 7:41pm
Ryan, when I address a question at someone who is commenting on my thread I expect an answer.  That is the courteous thing to do.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 7:42pm
Ryan:
 
Bottom line, Ryan.
I told you that I would oppose any attempt to suppress you because to me the idea of free speech is sacred.  The world needs all viewpoints, yours, mine, Tom Purcell, Texas Lynn, Mustafa, Carole's, etc.
 
Would you do the same?
Doug Plumb Added Jul 12, 2018 - 8:10pm
re ":), Well, we see as we are, not as things are:).  " Sometimes, its either I'm nuts or everyone else is crazy.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 12, 2018 - 8:13pm
re "I hope that our distinction of most open forum is preserved, and so far, Autumn leaves that up to us.
I hope to see a new article from you soon.  "
 
I've been thinking about this, I'll put something up soon. Having a very hard time - came across a mathematical absurdity while trying to learn tensors. May do a video on it. I'm really pissed about it since its so obvious and everyone says "move on". I'm in a serious state of anger and confusion over this.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 8:18pm
Mostly agree with the world's needing all viewpoints you mentioned save the last two, Jeffrey. 
 
Speech without virtue is wasted and useless.  The world would be better off without the speech of the characters I mentioned.  Their ideas are corrupted, as are they, and they not only offer nothing of use to the hearer, but they interfere with those of us who do. 
 
Not all ideas are informed, and I am not a fan of letting uninformed and wicked ideas just blast themselves everywhere. We all used to have a moral code, now, in it's absence, people think it's a virtue to accept everything,  no matter how absurd, filthy, or depraved it is.  Not so.  The mind shouldn't be a gutter to let every bit of filth in. 
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 8:21pm
Doug Plumb,
What is the name of your channel?
Jeff Michka Added Jul 12, 2018 - 9:07pm
What's funny to me is how all these "free dumb and liber tea" rightists here are always the first ones wanting to ban people.  kinda like being always the first to demand  someone be locked up, shot, or deported.  It's equally amusing they can NEVER see the hypocrisy, and get angry when called hypocritical for their in consistent views...and they're the first ones to tell you how smart and virtuous they are,  LOL.
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 9:23pm
Michka... I'm going to pay more attention to you right here, right now, than any and everybody summed up has over the past year.
 
The Michka >> ..with his "nobody likes you, walk away" crap. 
 
No, Michka... don't walk away.  Stay right were you are with all your full frontal ignorance on display.  Your every utterance proves the point of your detractors.
 
The Michka >> And I'm so ashamed my articles don't draw bigly huge comments,
 
No, Michka... not just articles (as if there were any) your every comment, your every syllable, your very $%^#ing existence is a bigly huge non-event.
 
After all the effort, after all the $%#@ spewing from your brain, the only acknowledgment you get is...
 
"The way Lynn feels about Jeff Micha is exactly what I feel about lying Ryan." -- James Travil.
 
Yeah, Jeff, everybody is hanging on your every word.  We see "Jeff Michka" and we step over your comment like the piece of dog shit it is.  But you sit there, roll around it, enhale it, and think of how proud you are to have squatted it out.
 
Keep squatting Jeff... pinch off another one.  You lay these little mine fields and the only response is people having to hold their nose and watch their step.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 9:39pm
So well done, Texas.  IMHO, the absence of profanity would have sharpened and empowered the message considerably. 
Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:01pm
Ryan M-- So you are endowed with the ultimate authority on whom shall speak.  The very nature of freedom is that we have no obligations to "pass the test" to exercise them.
 
Rant and rave how on ignorant and uneducated your fellow Americans are, it doesn't change the fact we are equal within our Constitutional Republic.
 
If your thoughts and ideals were valid, there would be no need for personal assaults on others that don't agree. The truth is self-evident and needs no defense or explanations.
 
Accept this, freedom isn't for the weak or uninitiated. It can be the most vile or beautiful creature each of us decides that it should be.
 
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:03pm
"I am sure there is a special place in heaven reserved for those who have never used the F-word. I will never get near that place." -- Dr. Charles Krauthammer
 
Now will I... Dr Krauthammer... Nor will I... :)
 
But point taken Ryan... It IS a bad habit; one of a few that I have.
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:08pm
Gerrilea,
That is eloquent. Jeffrey is collecting a fine group of anti-war free speech Constitutionalists, here.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:12pm
I was looking for that quote by Krauthammer, who I never heard curse, online and couldn't find it, Texas?  Do you have a link?
 
If he did say it, I still prefer George Washington's sentiments to his:)
 
"The General is sorry to be informed  that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice heretofore little known in an American army, is growing into a fashion; he hopes the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it, and that both they and the men will reflect that we can have little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our arms, if we insult it by impiety and folly; added to this, it is a vice so mean and low, without any temptation, that every man of sense and character detests and despises it.?"
 
You do have sense and character already, so I figure you are simply a butterfly emerging from your chrysalis.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:17pm
No, I'm not Gerrilea, but I do know the Ultimate Authority and that is all that matters.
 
Ignorance and corruption are never equal to wisdom and virtue, no matter how many people neglect the latter attributes and embrace the former.  The latter two are not subject to vote or popular opinion and consensus.
 
You said: If your thoughts and ideals were valid, there would be no need for personal assaults on others that don't agree. The truth is self-evident and needs no defense or explanations.
 
Solomon said: “A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.”       
 
I'm going with Solomon's sentiments. 
 
How about you don't listen to me about liberty and freedom, I don't listen to you about freedom and virtue, and we both listen to the Founders?  Can you find me anyone from our nation's Founding who agrees with your sentiments?  And please don't take quotes out of context from atheist websites from Google searches.  Liberals are very fond of doing that with Bible and Founders quotes. 
 
 
Carole McKee Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:33pm
Ryan: You also use profanity quite a bit, which is very unladylike, and very unattractive to men of consequence, wisdom, and power. Um...I went back over these posts and I do not believe I have used one profane word. You must have mistaken me for someone else. I don't use a lot of profanity, especially when something is in print. 
 
Now that it's discovered that you believe yourself to be the be-all and end-all of perfection, and a lady-killer, as well, I suppose I should be more respectful. And by the way, real men don't necessarily use or like profanity, but real mean don't judge other people. 
 
I can't imagine women throwing themselves at you. But whatever--maybe it's because I have never been that forward with men, that I find that hard to believe.
TexasLynn Added Jul 12, 2018 - 10:59pm
Ryan,
The quote is accurate... though Krauthammer literally said "F-Word" not the actual word.
 
This is from an old column (2004) in which he discussed Dick Cheney using it toward Sen. Pat Leahy on the Senate Floor.
 
I remember it also as a excerpt from his last book.
 
In Defense of the F-Word by Charles Krauthammer
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:08pm
Damn, I really let this one go, didn’t I?
 
LOL
Well, July is a busy month.  I have employee evaluations due this month and I do so love them.  No....really.
 
I will check in and comment as I can.  
 
Gerrilea Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:32pm
Ryan M---  You have not revealed any wisdom or virtue here.  You have used others words and beliefs and attempted to call them your own. 
 
Our constitution was not written in a vacuum, WE The People were the ultimate authority upon it's ratification.   7 out of the 13 original States demanded a "Bill of Rights" be added AS a condition of ratification.  Rhode Island is notorious for having 3 different public referendums that all failed to ratify said constitution BECAUSE there were no individual protections.
 
While I have great admiration for our "founders" and the document they created, what they thought and believed is truly immaterial.  WE took their work and modified it to include specific items that you, the demagogue (and others like you), could not through our created government, abrogate.  We know these specific items as the first 10 amendments to our constitution.
 
But Ryan, I will acquiesce to your query, 
Can you find me anyone from our nation's Founding who agrees with your sentiments? 
 
and present you with the facts:
 
Hamilton's Federalist #84, written to the People of the State of New York, my ancestors (theoretically):
 
"I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and, on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretense for claiming that power."
 
And Ryan, like the demagogues and zealots before you, you try to twist the truth to deny rights to others. Claiming that "free speech shall only be virtuous" or meet some arbitrary standard.
 
Hamilton himself admits that our created government has not been granted the privy over speech or press or religion or guns, et al.
 
So when you mutter absurdities that our "founders" believed this or that, it's all hogwash and a red-herring.
 
Now, would you like to play some other game with us???
 
Mark Hunter Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:44pm
"I don’t understand why you are content commenting on the Constitution, when you’ve never bothered to learn the ideals of the men who wrote it?"
 
Wait ... is there another Mark on this thread? I never commented on the Constitution here. All I said was that I don't understand the point of sticking around here if you disagree with the WB rule of free expression. Also, are you the CIA, and have you had a camera and mic over my shoulder my entire life? Because that's the only way you could possibly know how much I do or don't know about the Constitution.
Pardero Added Jul 12, 2018 - 11:53pm
Gerrilea,
Tremendous post.
Ryan has set himself up as the judge who decides which ones are worthy of free speech, yet he claims to be a Constitutionalist. 
 
I am unable to reconcile a Constitutionalist with a self-appointed despot who restricts free speech. He is tormenting some of my friends, but I am with Jeffrey Kelly. We must protect free speech. Those who are being tormented, must defend themselves, or ignore.
 
If you get a chance, Tubularsock has an article concerning regime change in Iran.
 
Any anti-war pacifists: please give Tubularsock's latest article a look.
Gerrilea Added Jul 13, 2018 - 12:49am
Pardero--Ryan is anything but a constitutionalist, he's a rabid zealot that wishes to mold the world into his vision of utopia. He erroneously conflates the personal opinions of our founders as "gospel" meant to be the "standard" we all must follow.  They'd have slapped him silly if they were alive today.
 
As for the neocons and their goals for regime change in Iran...it does concern me a great deal but many are missing what Israel is doing in Syria as we speak.   World War III is well underway and I tried to bring attention to it months ago. 
 
It will end very badly for the majority of humanity, enjoy the time we have left. Enjoy the morning breeze with the birds and crickets and nature's beauty. Enjoy the most outrageous sunsets and moments you have with your loved ones.
 
Just this morning I saw baby bunnies running around, chasing each other, playing what looked like "tag", they were loving and living in the moment and I'm grateful for that beautiful moment of innocence.
 
I shall cherish it all and I pray that you have similar beauty where you are.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 13, 2018 - 1:01am
Zip it, Gerrilea.  You are another sophist.  
 
What did I tell you above?   Read carefully.  Answer that. I’m not responding to your dumb gibberish.  
 
You stupidly quote Hamilton, and obviously went to Google, like I told you not to do because you’d take things out of context, which you did.  You are really proud and dimwitted.
 
Let me warn you. 
 
Stone is already moaning for mercy, Fernando left, Marilyn left, Mufasa is in his death throes, Michka is a joke, Travil is of no consequence and Badlose has nothing to say about politics anymore and is warbling about music now.  
If you want to follow them, be my guest.  Right makes might, and you’re standing in the way of the bus.  You will get run over.  
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 13, 2018 - 1:03am
You have to be pretty dumb, blind, and corrupt to lecture someone on Wisdom and virtue after you use profanity, but like most dimwitted liberals, you pull it off without a hint of reluctance.  
Ryan Messano Added Jul 13, 2018 - 1:04am
You aren’t the same as the people who habe is the Constitution, you are too corrupt and ignorant for that.
Pardero Added Jul 13, 2018 - 1:09am
Gerrilea,
Actually, the rabbits, deer, and prairie dogs are thick. I haven't noticed any predators, lately, except for a pair of hawks, and a single golden eagle.
I saw some calves playing tag, the other day. I got lucky with a herd of antelope in Irish Canyon. They just stared, and I didn't have the room to shut it stopped. I got on the air horn, and they cleared out. It works most times.
 
Of course, any place that isn't desert, has plenty of skunks. I saw only a few deer in Colorado, but got into a Gambel oak grove for a minute. The places that I have lived, do not have native oaks. Occasionally, you will run into a Bur oak that someone planted. They were so glossy green! Makes me wonder if they are a nitrogen fixer. 
 
We are getting some Sonya apples from New Zealand, at local markets. Pink Lady is grown domestically, now, which means they are picked green. Another variety ruined by American growers. No tart to the Sonyas, but splendid large apples with an elongated Red Delicious shape. A cross between Red and Golden delicious. NZ apples are the best.
Be sure to try one.
 
Yeah, I am gloomy about the evil afoot in the ME. I wish that I was one of those that didn't give a damn. Those things will eat you up if you can't get your mind off of it.  
James Travil Added Jul 13, 2018 - 2:00am
Lying Ryan claims to be a constitutionalist and isn't, what a shocker! He claims to be a Christian and a conservative as well but he is neither. He isn't called LYING Ryan for no reason. 
Gerrilea Added Jul 13, 2018 - 7:20am
Ryan M-- When were you given the authority to tell me what to do?  How did I quote Hamilton "out of context"?  He states that the government our constitution creates would not have the authority to "regulate" speech, et al.  I answered your question with facts and then you threaten to run me over with a bus and call me names???
 
If you didn't want your question answered, you shouldn't have asked it.
 
If you didn't hold a false premise that our "founders" believed in only virtuous speech, willing to ban anything they didn't agree with, then I wouldn't have taken the time to follow the email link Autumn sent to me.
 
Now,  I must seriously ask this, what medications are you taking or need to be taking but aren't? Does your Mother know what you're doing on the interwebs? It's a beautiful summer, should't you be outside playing? Perhaps in traffic???
 
Have fun in your delusional world, the rest of us will engage in reality and facts.  Something you sorely need an education on.
 
Pardero--  Thanks for the suggestion on the Sonyas apples, never heard of them and coincidentally, I'm going grocery shopping this morning. Perfect timing. 
 
James T-- It' nice to see you again, how are the ladies and your job going? Any good suggestions on some hot investments that wouldn't be considered insider trading?  Wink, wink.
 
That Ryan character will be relegated to the dustbins of history.  A "wannabe's" wannabe....clearly he's unstable and delusional and is in need of mental help. Alas, he should be grateful he lives in this freedom loving nation, we allow you to be as crazy as you wish, as long as you aren't a threat to yourself or others.
 
Doug Plumb Added Jul 13, 2018 - 7:53am
Pardero, my channel is Doug Plumb. I don't know if I will do that video or not. I've never run into anything like a mathematical absurdity in a math book before. I know my vector calculus very well. But if I do the video it will have at least one shark in it.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 9:12am
The thread demonstrates your premise Jeffrey. Well done. You are correct. Free speech is free speech, there are no qualifiers. Otherwise it is not free
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 9:16am
Free speech means that as one is free to say as they wish, they and others are likewise free to be offended. When offense reaches the same ridiculously overproduced proportions as dollar bills and laws it also depreciates in any value. Assuming it ever had any to begin with
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 13, 2018 - 9:35am
Thanks, Burghal.  Oddly for a liberal I think we swung way too hard at trying not to offend anyone.  
 
I remember one of my Journalism professors said, “I always write something with the knowledge that someone, somewhere, will find it offensive and sometimes pornographic.  This includes articles about baseball.”
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 13, 2018 - 10:26am
Ryan,
Is this
"Mostly agree with the world's needing all viewpoints you mentioned save the last two, Jeffrey"
 
your answer to Jeffreys post?
 
 You mostly agree? save the last two? Does that mean that you have changed your mind on the fab four?
 
and his repeated request 
for an answer
 
JK:"Bottom line, Ryan.
I told you that I would oppose any attempt to suppress you because to me the idea of free speech is sacred.  The world needs all viewpoints, yours, mine, Tom Purcell, Texas Lynn, Mustafa, Carole's, etc.
 
Would you do the same?"
 
Mustafa
 
Stone-Eater Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:22am
Does this shit ever end ? No fun anymore, really.
Carole McKee Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:39am
Stone-Eater: Let's make a run for it! Lol!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:51am
I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m having a great time.
;)
Ian Thorpe Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:53am
Jeffrey, free speech isn't pretty nor should it be. If comedy is not allowed to offend there is no comedy. If we prohibit those who deny the holocaust from stating their case we set a precedent for prohibiting any topic the powers that be do not want discussed in public (for example the unsustainable levels of debt run up by governments in the developed world.
Without the right to say what we think, or to freely access information, no matter how far out of step with the mainstream it is, we have no freedoms.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:54am
Amen and can we have a hallelujah from the choir!
Carole McKee Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:58am
Ian: So well stated! I applaud you...and AMEN!
Pardero Added Jul 13, 2018 - 1:56pm
Ian Thorpe,
Brilliantly written statement!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 13, 2018 - 2:11pm
@Ian Thorpe:
Well said, I’m just going to add a few things.
 
”Jeffrey, free speech isn't pretty nor should it be. If comedy is not allowed to offend there is no comedy.”
 
As I mentioned above sometimes comedy needs to push boundaries to make us laugh.  There is comedy in making people uncomfortable because it forces them to see themselves in a light they don’t want to. Or see themselves as they truly are.
 
“If we prohibit those who deny the holocaust from stating their case we set a precedent for prohibiting any topic the powers that be do not want discussed in public”
 
Yes with a caveat.  Free speech ends where the speaker advocates violence or incites violence.  Most of the deniers that I’ve dealt with have hate somewhere, they just conceal it behind pretty words and crocodile tears.  I don’t mind if someone has a case, wants to go against what is accepted, says something provocative, etc.  It doesn’t bother me if people get their feelings hurt.  
 
But where denial fails is it’s complete lack of proof in the alternate history it spouts.  Nor do I want it taught as an alternative in schools.  I can see where it belongs in an academic setting at a university or college level but not in high school or below.
 

“Without the right to say what we think, or to freely access information, no matter how far out of step with the mainstream it is, we have no freedoms.”
 
Yes.  
Jeff Michka Added Jul 13, 2018 - 4:15pm
Good article and comment thread, Jeffrey Kelly.  I guess I pretty much feel the same, but think intent as motive has bearing.  RM has said, briefly in another(?) thread, if I run into it again, will forward, but he engages as he does to drive people off WB.  In short make WB so chaotic and unpleasant, people will "just walk away."  I know that is his intent in attacking me as he has recently and in the past.  I'm unclear why he does this, but doubt people will leave WB en masse and go to his website  (won't mention name of the site).  This is his attempt to close this place down, my thoughts at least.  Wouldn't metter if everyone read every bio of the foundering fathers, named every engagement in the Civil War, or all became Xtians, Ryan would stay at it.  He is really trying to hurt Autumn's efforts and those of others here.  TraitorLynn wants my head, and being "Mr IT" figures he can move me out because he can't answer the hypocrisy, and Facebook tactics always work.  This will bring an angry reply comment or two, I imagine.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 4:26pm
No anger Mich. Have you tried that bowl yet?
 
There is an old maxim: Praise the nagging wife, for surely the silent spouse is plotting your demise.
 
Without protected freedom of speech for all you end up with the Pravda version a la Messano.  The minute you try to throttle someone for their speech - no matter how big a tool they may be - you are signing on for censorship. There is NO place for censorship in a free society. Only within the light of competing ideas is idiocy exposed.
 
Even your free speech, contributing as little constructive as it does, is worthy of protection.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 13, 2018 - 4:42pm
Ah, so it was here, now gone.  Gee, thanks, Domesday book.  Hey, go do your own bowls, etc.  I really don't have time or care what you do.  Stay in the UK may be my best thought on you.  And, the other side of this is I don't care if you get angry or don't.  That's squarely in your court. I also don't care about your critique. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 4:47pm
Angry over you? Don't flatter yourself :)
Ryan Messano Added Jul 13, 2018 - 4:55pm
It’s very evident liberals make up the most wild and outrageous pity party, sob story stories to get sympathy for the God they worship: THEMSELVES.
 
They are all self made men, and they worship their Creator:).  
 
Name one liberal on here who that doesnt apply to. 
 
Crickets.
 
Notice all the time they devote to defending their idol, themselves, and how little time they put into actually learning the past to have a worthy viewpoint.
 
You can blast them six ways till Sunday on their ineptitude and ignorance, and rather than sensibly do something about it, they create insane stories to justify the stagnant state they are in.  They hate cognitive dissonance.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 13, 2018 - 4:58pm
Ryan,
re:"Name one liberal on here who that doesnt apply to. "
 
Mustafa
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:05pm
I like that everyone has a strong opinion on this, Jeff M.  Ryan is kind of a twat who thinks only his speech is virtuous while the rest of us can go to hell and die.  He doesn’t think women should vote and apparently doesn’t think liberals should either.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:05pm
Da fuq is Ryan talking about?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:14pm
I have a theory on this character. I think he got WriterBeat confused with WankerBeat. This is his foreplay before he sits in front of the mirror and abuses himself. I could, of course, be wrong...............
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:15pm
Maybe a masochist getting off on all of the abuse? 
Jeff Michka Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:20pm
Is that how you warmup for WB, Domesday Book?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:26pm
No, Jeff. I think of you, go dump off a big one and then admire the resemblance to your avatar before flushing. Then I consume copious amounts of cannabis and alcohol and sharpen my pen. What's your creative process? Do you have one?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:26pm
gee Jeffrey K! This free speech thing is pretty nifty!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:54pm
Ayup...LOL
Gerrilea Added Jul 13, 2018 - 5:58pm
Jeffrey K--- Da fuq is Ryan talking about?  
 
I was wondering that myself,
"They hate cognitive dissonance."  ???
 
BTW, great article and the debate that followed. Thank you.
 
James Travil Added Jul 13, 2018 - 6:01pm
Nice to see you here again Tom! And likewise to you Gerrilea. My family (the ladies and our kids) are doing great. It's a true joy to be a part of this family. Can't really suggest much to invest in right now other than gold and to some extent uranium. But I definitely would avoid or get out of HTC stock for a while, they are tanking badly. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 13, 2018 - 7:12pm
Thanks, Gerrilea.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 13, 2018 - 7:45pm
Seems you are the type of clown that goes out and sits down on a fire hydrant for a thrill as part of your creative process, Domesday Book.  Have to admit, you are one of WB's super egotists, who blows his own horn.  Amazing you can bend that far.   So you admit to being a stoner and a drunk when you write?  You ought to quit drinking the bowl (of your toilet) dry.  You talk a big line about the quality of the booze you drink.  Do you get rid of the rest of the torpedo you drained your booze from?  Think piss off says t all.  I'm sure you can get a hand pump for your ego.  Just take one of your hands out of your lap, eh?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 13, 2018 - 7:54pm
yawn
Jeff Michka Added Jul 13, 2018 - 7:58pm
Glad you enjoyed Domesday Book's snappy repartee.  Worth remembering in the future. 
Pardero Added Jul 13, 2018 - 8:11pm
Jeff Michka,
TBH is a good guy and you know it. He is on your same free speech side! You've opened up more fronts than the German Army. 
Friendly advice, just keep kicking RM's ass and don't quarrel with reasonable people that are potential allies. Peace.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 13, 2018 - 9:38pm
Golly Gee: Ryan M-- When were you given the authority to tell me what to do?  How did I quote Hamilton "out of context"?  He states that the government our constitution creates would not have the authority to "regulate" speech, et al.  I answered your question with facts and then you threaten to run me over with a bus and call me names???
 
Right makes might.  When you observe the former, the latter naturally follows, but those who seek the latter alone rarely find the former. 
 
Try as you might, you will never find a Founder using profanity, endorsing it, or any of the pet projects of the left today.  The left tries to furiously find their faults and point them out, while the left vigorously promotes their own evils.  The left could care less about slavery.  Heck, they are committing genocide on blacks as I type this, in abortion clinics.  More blacks were killed in Democrat abortion clinics in the past two days than were lynched in the history of America.  It's the magic tricks of left.  Virtue means right thinking, right living, and right speech, and nothing you stand up for is virtuous.  You like to toss the word out a lot, but you haven't got the strength to live a virtuous life. 
 
Those who have the ideals of the left often get steamrolled either before their ideas come to fruition, or by the results of their ideas being implemented.  Either way, you'll be run over by a bus.
  
If you didn't want your question answered, you shouldn't have asked it.
 
If you didn't hold a false premise that our "founders" believed in only virtuous speech, willing to ban anything they didn't agree with, then I wouldn't have taken the time to follow the email link Autumn sent to me.
 
Why do you even attempt to speak about the Founders words when you clearly have never read even five biographies of them?  You are another Sophist. This is what our universities produce.  People who know nothing, but are trained expertly in how to pretend they do when they don't. 
  
Now,  I must seriously ask this, what medications are you taking or need to be taking but aren't? Does your Mother know what you're doing on the interwebs? It's a beautiful summer, should't you be outside playing? Perhaps in traffic???
 
I'm quite amused  at  how leftists constantly ask others about their meds.  LOL.  Listen to the Democrat Banshee at the end of Gohmert hammering the adulterer Strzok with his adultery.  She sang out, "You need your medications".  The Democrats should know about medications, as they are particularly afflicted with it.   I've never used medications in my life, nor have I used drugs, or alcohol, yet the Democrats will say I need them.  LOL, because if you aren't on meds, you don't think crazy like them.  You've been asked multiple times about your drug, medication, and porn use Gerrilea, and you have been utterly silent.  Funny how you are a fan of free speech until it comes time to be honest about behaviors that may cause your thinking to land you in the funny farm. 
 
Then you condescend to me, which is the sign that you are at your wits end and about to pull a Fernando.  Can some of your fellow leftists get you some smelling salts, so you don't faint on us like he did?  
  
Have fun in your delusional world, the rest of us will engage in reality and facts.  Something you sorely need an education on.
 
Ha, Facts!!  What facts are you speaking of?  You are in a conversation with armored men and you aren't wearing a stitch of clothing intellectually. 
 
Solomon talked about you leftists thousands of years ago, "He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls."   You are like cities with no walls.  You are easy to attack and destroy.   You have no defenses. 
  
Pardero--  Thanks for the suggestion on the Sonyas apples, never heard of them and coincidentally, I'm going grocery shopping this morning. Perfect timing. 
  
James
Ryan Messano Added Jul 13, 2018 - 9:38pm
That Ryan character will be relegated to the dustbins of history.  A "wannabe's" wannabe....clearly he's unstable and delusional and is in need of mental help. Alas, he should be grateful he lives in this freedom loving nation, we allow you to be as crazy as you wish, as long as you aren't a threat to yourself or others.
 

 
"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it"
Winston Churchill
I will too.  Righteousness is eternal, the wicked are soon hated and forgotten. 
 
We have liberty because of the virtue of our Founders, which you and your fellow leftist degenerate termites are eating away at as fast as you can.
Ward Tipton Added Jul 13, 2018 - 10:03pm
My brother said I was awful pretty. He said I was pretty ugly, pretty useless, pretty ornery ... pretty apt to stay that way ... awful pretty. 
 
Can I be free now?
Gerrilea Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:22pm
Ryan M---Hilarious and sad.  Why are you so desperate to know personal details about me?
 
Our nation is ruled by law, the supreme law is codified in the Constitution. No law is superior or can abrogate said. 
 
Free speech is exactly that.  Whatever the speaker decides, not you or me. You always have the choice to not listen, walk away, turn the channel or move.
 
You have nothing to add to this discussion.
 
This will be my last reply to you, no sense in feeding trolls, they never stop and dearie, I'm not going anywhere.
 
 
Gerrilea Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:27pm
Ward T--- When weren't you free?  Did your brother's word enslave you somehow? 
 
The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. ~ Steven Biko
 
James Travil Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:32pm
Gerrilea wrote:", I'm not going anywhere."
Neither am I, or Jeff, or Stone, or Opher. And you are powerless to make us lying Ryan. We're all laughing at your ignorant ass, ROTFLMFAO!! 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 12:00am
F in Civics, Gerrilea.  Where does the Declaration of Independence  say our rights come from?  Hint: It rhymes with nature and natures God. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 12:42am
Doug,
re:" I've never run into anything like a mathematical absurdity in a math book before"
Me neither, ive found a few mistakes though.
What is the book on tensors that you are using?
 
Ward Tipton Added Jul 14, 2018 - 9:51am
I was born free ... as free as the wind blows ... as free as ... oh wait ... was that a song? Can I sing that in public? 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:32am
Everything is public, comrade. Privacy is theft!
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:34am
That is what a poli-sci professor at Antioch College in Yellow Springs, OH told me. I'm digging in to how much annually a parent pays for a degree from this prestigious institution
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:37am
Its good to catch these people in the summer months, if they have stuck around. Yellow Springs is one of those kinds of places. Kind of a hippie oasis in a sea of rednecks. Get them with a few ales, wear a tie dye shirt, dark glasses, goofy hat. They never see you coming. They are convinced that you must be one of them. The things they tell you when they let their hair down. Very enlightening
Ward Tipton Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:46am
When I am singing in public (not to be confused with sengin' ... make sure you replant all three of them red seeds) I try to sing solo ... so low nobody hears me ... helps keep me from getting shot at that ways. A fellow once told me, free speech ain't always pretty ... but neither is getting shot at for trying to court some gal or just because I never could carry a tune in a number two washtub! 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:48am
BH, 
 
Apathy is strong in this one. A foolish and degenerate lover of nonsense, who has zero wisdom, and is full of folly.  
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:50am
Poor BH, thought that massive opposition means he can assault Wisdom with no consequences.  Wrong, my friend, dead wrong.  
 
Better to let sleeping dogs lie.
 
Now it’s “Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war”.
Ward Tipton Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:51am
Maybe I should write a story about my Uni psych paper on Mister Rogers? Not one flaw in my logic, my facts or my presentation ... but they tried to run me off because they did not like the conclusions they drew from the facts. 
 
Loves me some leftist tolerance in the mawnin! Lawsy yes!
 
If you flip someone a bird with your right hand, I grew up right about where the pinky comes down on the palm ... along the Braxton/Gilmer county line up on route nine. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:53am
Que?
Jeff Michka Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:09am
 
Well, since ol TraitorLynn continues with his dogshit anger at me,  figuring if he keeps it up, I'll leave WB because tha t he's "Mr, IT" but It always works for him on Facebook, but we need to "understand" why.  Ol Traitor thinks there's nothing faulty with his attempt to wow fellow rightists with his patriotism, but refuses to see the hypocrisy in calling for the Union to be broken up so he doesn't have to compromise in his extremist views.   He could clear this by explaining why that's not hypocrisy, but hasn't even tried.  So TraitoLynn stands by his hypocrisy, definitely doesn't ant to acknowledge it, and I'm the "bad guy," or dogshit.  TraitorLynn is just another rightist loudmouth, and can't defend his "position." At the same time, he's an arch-patriot but doesn't want a United States, mouths rightist iconology being Mr. 2nd amendment, and breaking the law when it suits him and when his little niece needs TriatorLynn to bring her the lunch she "forgot", but needs his farm implements (guns) with him onto school property.  TraitorLynn throws his dogshit Jeff posts, calling me insane and "off my meds," but can't acknowledge he's just another Texan phony All hat, no cattle.  But he has the boots he'll wear on the barricades, facing down the US army,  TratorLynn likes to CLAIM, I've written nothing on WB.  Another attempt at smear, but all ANYONE, including TraitorLynn can see those articles by clicking on my name and looking at the column on the left side of the screen under my av pic.  So, he's hiding, once again.  Perhaps he'll comment with bible verses to show what a good Xtain he is, besides being a rank hypocrite.  I'd rather claim his title of dogshit than being the hypocrite he is.  Dog shit can get washed off, hypocrisy is part of the soul.  Plus, he likes to think and claim being the bigtime rebel.  What has he done?  He has BUMPERSTICKERS!!!!   Wow, end of te US there.  And his lame crap is my fault?
Ward Tipton Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:20am
The Burghal Hidage - Look at West (By God) Virginia on a map, then look at your right hand as you flip a bird ... then it will all make amazingly clear sense. Except the middle finger is kinda stubby ... like someone who has been working the mills for too long. 
Ward Tipton Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:21am
It is said that while Governor Berkeley had no choice but to split the state in twain to get an added vote for the union, the shape of West Virginia was his answer to Lincoln about the way he felt in complying. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:22am
^^^^^^^. Desperately hungry for the attention his lies and profanity will never earn him. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:27am
On a personal note I’m glad the the things I write are generally guaranteed to piss someone off......LOL
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:44am
Indeed! When you've pissed somebody off there is no mistaking whether or not you have their attention
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:45am
Great post, great thread Jeffrey. Thanks again
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 2:36pm
Those who get people angry learn more truths about themselves than those who do not.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 2:36pm
Two people will tell you the truth about yourself, your deepest enemies and your best friends.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 2:38pm
Sadly, most of the liberals are very ungrateful when you tell them the truth about themselves.  They treat you like an enemy, when if they simply listened, they'd be wiser, happier, and more peaceful.  But, humans are creatures of habit, and they dislike change from the habits they've formed all their lives.  Cognitive dissonance is painful, and liberals have lived lives of ease.
Carole McKee Added Jul 14, 2018 - 2:53pm
Ryan: Truths? Or opinions? You have some pretty strong opinions of people, and have called many of us some unsavory names. That doesn't make it truth. It's just a narrow-minded thought from a person who is convinced that he is superior to the rest of the world, and especially those of us on WB.
 
So my question is this: If you think you are so superior to us, why are you hanging around us? Since you find most of us distasteful, it seems strange that you would want to comment on anything we post, let alone associate yourself with us. I know if I felt that way, I'd move on to higher ground.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 3:00pm
Two people will tell you the truth about yourself, your deepest enemies and your best friends.
 
well you must be ready to bust your stuffing with truth because you've made a ton of enemies on here and clearly you are your own best friend. How does it feel to be god? Dont those prayers get annoying after a while? All that whining!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 14, 2018 - 3:37pm
I always enjoy when people tell me what I believe and how I think.  That’s fun.  It’s also usually incorrect.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 14, 2018 - 4:12pm
Yeah, that's it Messianic, I'm tired of all those prayers, particularly from you.  Get off your knees, I'm not your husband Vinny.  And yeah, just bursting from all that truth.  Shame you've never uttered a word of it.  You've neglected some suck-up comments to TraitorLynn so he can augment your phony Xtainity.  Cheer up, Messano…legs together.  One nail left...Road to Mandalay!
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:05pm
I think there is a lot of confustion between the principle of free speech and the legal basis, the 1st Amendment. On the basis of the 1st Amendment the Supreme Court has expanded the legal protection of free speech thoughout the course of US history, particularly in the wake of the black civil rights movement. Somebody said in hindsight to the restrictions of free speech in the "Mc Cathy era" and its resurrection in the wake of the black emancipation, "the black have won for us, what the reds had lost for us."
 
While I'm usually a constitutional originalist, I must say that in this particular case I'm glad that the Supreme Court stretched the meaning of the words beyond the likely will of its signees.
 
I believe that it is important for a society to uphold a principle to ensure that the legal frame will sustain. A document cannot defend itself. It is a people that live a principle or they don't. Freedom of speech as it evolved from the teachings of history, only fully understood by SOME US Americans, is a precious good, without which all freedoms are quickly nought.
 
That means that in your sphere of influence, you can strengthen the future of your countries freedom by grant as much free speech to others and not just what your legal situation requires of you. (e..g if you are an official or you receive tax money, you are not allowed to limit somebody elses speech). There is no country, and I emphasize, NO country where a significant portion of citizens understand that debates and free elections, which can only happen in a context of free minds open to different viewpoints, are important.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:28pm
Ward,
re:" Look at West (By God) Virginia on a map, then look at your right hand as you flip a bird ... then it will all make amazingly clear sense. Except the middle finger is kinda stubby ... like someone who has been working the mills for too long.'
'
 
Who says you cant learn alot at WB! news to me. Thanks
 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:30pm
Jeffrey,
re:"I always enjoy when people tell me what I believe and how I think. "
There are also the ones who tell you how you feel.    LOL
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:31pm
West Virginia are the 33 traitorous counties that left the bosom of the Old Dominion in 1863. When the counties announce their withdrawal from Virginia.....
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:31pm
a frustrated Virginia could not be reached for comment. <rim shot!>
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:34pm
Carole, it's an unsavory and unpopular truth.
 
"No man is hated more than he who tells the truth".
Plato.
 
Rarely do people like to hear the truth about themselves.  They prefer to be flattered by obsequious sycophants.  This is the behavior of the WB liberals and libertarians.  Watch the hell that breaks loose if you dare criticize these wretched ingrates.  I'm a man and not afraid of these beasts, but I can't imagine what a woman would do.   God help the women in relations with these men.  They'd have to be Medusa or Jezebel to deal with them. 
 
My mind is very close minded, like a bear trap.  It's closed against racism, rape, lust, vulgarity, and all the other garbage the liberal mind gutters are full of.  Where do you get the idea that having an open mind, like a gutter, and letting all kinds of filth and garbage in is a good idea? 
 
A parachute that opens too wide doesn't work.  So a mind that is open for everything breaks down.  Just look on WB at all the men with cracked minds.  They like it too. 
 
Evil surmising, please study it.  I'm not superior to anything but what I was yesterday, but in my search for excellence, I will not be coming to the level of those who love mediocrity and scorn anything other than that.  That's their choice and they will be made to answer for it.  Humility is understanding one's faults. That's fine, but what's not fine is staying mediocre and loving it, while attacking any efforts do dislodge one from the mudpit.
 
Also, Virtue is it's own reward.  If you don't like it, fix yourself and stop attacking the messenger.  You don't speak for everyone, and even if you did, appeal to popular is a logical fallacy commonly repeated by you and many others on here.  It doesn't seem to cross your mind that what you and your friends and family, along with society at large disagrees with can be true. 
 
Small strokes fell great oaks.  My words aren't in vain.  Every major liberal has left and others are on their way out.  All I have to do is keep telling the truth, and the liberal, lying, degenerates will continue to expose themselves for frauds.  They hate me, but that's common.  Those who love truth are often hated.  They can never win a debate, and all it takes is one conservative to stand up, not back down, and take on every single last liberal.  Win the argument, then you win the vote.  While the liberals and their degenerate supporters don't realize it, their insanity is exposed for the average voter.  They only make up  20% of the voters.  20% of us are conservative, and the 60% are in between.  While the 60% have been duped and deceived, they will not always be deceived.  They are swayed by reason and passion, and when they find out that liberals are completely corrupt and useless, they will massively leave the liberals, and the liberal movement will be put in it's grave, where it belongs.  It is a Dracula and desperately needs a stake through it's heart.  It's a blood sucking evil creature, always trying to tax people and rule people when it can't rule itself. 
 
Raise your hand if you read Jeff's filthy posts and comments.  I know there must be at least two of you on  here.  Surely he isn't talking to himself.  Can anyone remember the last time anyone acknowledged him?  Kind of taxing my memory to do it.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:38pm
Ryan do you change your soapbox daily? I sure hope so. Either that or you got one of those really expensive models, something that can endure the rigors of your traveling circus
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:38pm
Do you still have two legs?
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:39pm
BH,
 
You belong in the library.
 
Ciao.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:39pm
youre right. why waste time with Michka when I can poke your cage? Youre easily rattled
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:40pm
A wise man has something to say, a fool has to say something,
 
Plato
 
The latter description fits you quite well, though you and your fellow liberals and libertarians will absolve yourself of the description, convict your opposition, and reward yourself with the former designation.  Pride and ignorance are commonly married.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:41pm
I'm doing everyone on writerbeat a service here. the more time you spend jousting with me you're not spitting in someone else's soup
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:45pm
So are first cousins. Is that your story?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:45pm
Go, run off. Make some more friends
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:46pm
Your time is limited.  I've been watching you, and can tell you a lot more about yourself.  I'm just waiting.  Was trying to give you time to come to wisdom, but you unfortunately blew it.  Your habits leave you impatient and in love with mediocrity.  Wisdom is too much work for you.
 
I'm just giving you rope and letting you talk.  Like all the other loudmouth liberals and libertarians on here, if you're given enough rope, you'll hang yourself.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:46pm
Ryan,
re:"No man is hated more than he who tells the truth".
Plato.
 
Rarely do people like to hear the truth about themselves."
 
Indeed, both are true.
 
 
But I have a different quote:
"Many  are laughed at who disguise their ignorance as truth and their virtue as hostility and authoritarianism"
 
Many here, many times, many many times,  have informed you of the errors in your speech, but it appears that you do not like to hear it. 


Dont confuse the laughter for hatred. You are way to silly for that.
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 5:48pm
Ryan,
re:"My mind is very close minded"
 
And that IS a truth.
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 6:16pm
Short memory Mufasa.  What did I tell you a few days ago?
 
Its amazing to me how Islam is like a cancer.  When a body is in a fight, Islam and its admirers show up like vultures.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 6:18pm
Scoundrels take refuge in company.  Their nefarious deeds are disguised this way.  None of you liberals or libertarians can get up in an assembly of those opposing your views, and hold your own.  You are like the hyenas of Lion King.  You bide your time, and attack in packs.  All cowards do.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 14, 2018 - 7:13pm
Mustafa re "What is the book on tensors that you are using?" - Its in all of them. The absurdity is in the papers not carefully defining the restrictions on functions. Much confusion in many math papers that try to sound mathy, but with bad or incomplete explanations or bad definitions.
What should be an easy math is turning out to be very difficult. I understand tensors, but want the depth necessary to understand Gram matrices because these are used in householder reflectors in numerical analysis in big data.
I'm giving serious thought to writing a PDF on tensors.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 7:13pm
Ryan,
:'None of you liberals or libertarians can get up in an assembly of those opposing your views, and hold your own. "
 
 I can easily do that. Its simple when you are not lying.
 
 
Doug Plumb Added Jul 14, 2018 - 7:16pm
How mathy are you Mustafa?
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 7:25pm
Doug, 
Abraham Marsden and Ratiu
has always worked well for me, when it comes to rigour. As for Gram matrices and Householder reflections, I do not know a good general reference, but they indeed are important.  Whenever you have a pdf to share, please let me know.
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 7:37pm
Doug, 40 years, full time
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 8:37pm
All talk, no walk, Mufasa.  Show an example.  You have just one of mine. 
James E. Unekis Added Jul 14, 2018 - 8:38pm
Ryan,
Take a quick peek at Proverbs 9:7-9.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 8:44pm
It's very true, James.
 
That's a very good admonition in one to one interactions, but in a public forum, Solomon also said, "A rod for the Fools back".  Paul advised, "rebuke before all, that all may fear".  Margaret Thatcher said, "First you win the argument, then you win the vote". 
 
Proverbs 17:10 said,
 
A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.
 
We've had ample proof of this on WB.  If it were for the sake of the liberals, I would have left long ago. It's not.  They refuse to learn, so they will be made examples of.
 
Solomon also said this.
 
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 9:16pm
Ryan, 
re:"All talk, no walk, Mufasa. "
 
Ok, lets see you walk, mr talk:
 
"RM:It was you earlier that could not decipher what liberal on here I was speaking of in my earlier article and comments when I spoke of theirs anguished and irrational fears of being placed in a concentration camp.  You seriously obtusely asked who it was multiple times, when everyone on WB with fourth grade reading skills knew."
 
which is a classic example of your obfuscation. Here was your original comment.
 
RM:"We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps
 
Note the apparently erroneous use of "truth" here.  



Actually, this was where the fun began. I asked you to support that very strong assertion and you did your little virtue song and dance.
 
As one can see, with you, one never gets past the first stage of an interaction before it goes all virtuous..
 
Moreover, you have never really fully responded to Jeffrey's post. 
 
You sound like a coward
 
Mustafa
 
Carole McKee Added Jul 14, 2018 - 9:21pm
Ryan: When you say things about people, you are voicing your opinion. You don't know me, and you don't anything about what I do or how I think. You would like to think you do, but you don't. Just because I don't judge people, doesn't mean I wallow in the gutter. In my personal life I have very high standards, and I only associate with others who have the same standards. But I don't look down my nose at people and I don't judge. It's not my place to judge, and I'm a little confused as to why you think it's your place. I do refrain from bad language, as do my friends. None of us drink or do drugs either. 
 
When I say I am open-minded, I am referring to the fact that I care about people. I have compassion for the poor, and I am not a racist. I don't hate anybody. I know people think that the poor are poor because they are lazy and don't want to work. I know differently. There are many reasons why a person can be considered poor. Everybody is just three mistakes away from being there with them.
 
Anyway, that's what open-minded is to me. I really don't tolerate bad behavior, but the I really don't expose myself to it either. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 9:24pm
Exhibit A on how Mufasa does not think clearly.  Thank you for that.  
 
Does anyone else on WB, who has been here for at least a month, not know who I was talking about, and need to have it spelled out like Mufasa?
 
Anyone?  It looks like even your liberal friends know, Mufasa, and they are hanging you out to dry.
 
This is the problem with liberalism, you liberals can’t think. You need everything spelled out for you. 
 
 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 9:41pm
Ryan, I dont know if you know this, but as usual, we are way off topic.
 
Are you ever going to respond fully to Jeffrey's post?
 
I think many would like to hear your wisdom.
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:44pm
Ryan,
Did you provide one piece of substance to support your position?
 
Nada! Hichi!  Yok! 
 
How about walking the walk mr. talk? It seems you are a talker and not a doer.
 
Mustafa
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 10:56pm
If anyone needs lessons in sophistry, Mufasa is a very good source.  I'm not sure how much he will charge, but if he's like most liberals, he will charge a fortune for his 'services'.  When you are done, you'll be a corrupt and deceitful charlatan, just like the Mahometan. 
 
When confronted with his gross ignorance, he'll tell you you are off topic.  LOL.  It never ends.  What kind of drugs did you use, Mufasa? 
 
May the reader observe how scrupulous the liberals are to avoid ever saying how many and what kind of drugs they use (d).  They are equally scrupulous at hunting all over the earth to find a fault on their opponent. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:04pm
Excuse me, Carole, your words tell the world what you think about and do in private.  Just because you don't know what your attitudes are telling those who know what to look for, doesn't mean they don't know. 
 
That's why it's a good idea to listen more than you talk, but the liberal men on here and you don't seem to have learned that you have two ears and a mouth so you can listen twice as much as you talk.
 
You judge every day that it's a good idea to stop at a red light.  And you are right.  And there are red light's in people's behavior you'd be wise to heed too, but you don't look for them, and then pat yourself on the back that you don't 'judge', when all you are doing is getting into world class car wrecks in personal relationships.  I'm sure you've got a number of those in your past.  We all do, but not all of us learn from them. 
 
Who cares who judges?  Right will be right whether you or I say so or not.  I prefer to seek and find it in my life, and if I wish to say it publicly, I will do so with or without your consent.  You are welcome to give assiduous and sedulous attention to it too.
 
Caring about people means not prostituting the truth for unity. That's caring.  Love means correction.  It's hatred to see someone doing something wrong, and to let them keep right on saying it.  Love is tougher, because as you can tell on here, people don't like to be corrected, and you make enemies.  So what.  At least I did my job. If they don't want to hear it, they have only themselves to blame when they suffer the inevitable consequences. 
 
 
 
 
 
Carole McKee Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:21pm
Ryan: But I have 10 fingers to type with. There is no way I could possibly "Listen" to what someone says on WB. I can read it, with my two eyes, and respond with my 10 fingers. But that's not the point. The point is that you are assuming you know me. You do not. And I know that saying well, about the two ears and one mouth. I used it several times in my classrooms. 
 
The things you say about people and the names you sling at them are simply a product of your frustration that everybody doesn't think like you, and agree with you. 
 
Nobody hates you because you speak the truth. They show disdain for you because you think you have all the answers and believe that the rest of us are morons. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 14, 2018 - 11:51pm
Carol,  if you look carefully, you will see that Ryan is completely impervious to reason.
 
But he is fun. Look at this gem:
"RM:That's why it's a good idea to listen more than you talk"
 
Mustafa
 
 
 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 15, 2018 - 12:09am
I’m afraid you do, Carole.  
 
If you want to learn how to use the passive/aggressive approach in argumentation, and to be a good Sophist, take notes from Mufasa, he’s giving brilliant lessons.  He actually thinks he’s doing something new.  Lol, Mufasa, history is littered with your type.  
 
I prefer the degenerate Michka to you.  At least he comes out and shows he’s corrupt, and doesn’t try to hide it.
 
Youd be frustrated too if the people over fifty who were supposed to be guiding and teaching you, still need to be taught and guided themselves. It’s shameful.
 
I never called anyone a moron, I simply identified stupid decisions and ideas.  No one is forcing anyone to continue making them.  Failure is an event, not a person.
Pardero Added Jul 15, 2018 - 12:52am
Ryan Messano,
It is childish, and certainly should be beneath you, to purposely jumble and mangle names. 
 
You do not behave as a gentleman, when you rely on such low tactics. You are fond of quoting Solomon and Aristotle, but I cannot believe that they used such disreputable methods to demean adversaries.
 
It is Mustafa Kemal who actually hearkens back to the notable ancients. As he has shown the patience of Job with your puerile provocations.
Pardero Added Jul 15, 2018 - 12:56am
*notable ancients, as he has...
Ryan Messano Added Jul 15, 2018 - 1:26am
Pardero, 
 
Keep your trap shut, you hypocritical and spineless jellyfish.
 
You sit and watch the most degenerate filth be uttered, and rarely have anything to say about that, but want to lecture me?  Who are you kidding, sister? 
 
I believe you deserve your own moniker too.  I’ll start thinking of one.  
 
Its perfectly polite to butcher pseudonyms, especially when the nonsense uttered by the name bearer far exceeds any levity gained by renaming them.
 
Solomon and Aristotle knew how to dismiss the foolish.  
 
There was a man in the Bible named Shimei.  He treated King David, Solomon’s father, like contemporary liberals treat conservatives.   David was merciful and overlooked his nonsense.  But Solomon didn’t.  May you profit from his example.
 
Please don’t fall for Mufasas subtle and sinister stratagems. He is a debauched Mahometan, and you only fall for it because you don’t understand Muhammadanism.  I recommend you start researching Islam and the 33,000 terror attacks they’ve had since 9/11, all documented.  Mufasa is enamored with it, as he was too busy having fun in his younger years to pay attention to history, so now he’s a dupe, and he will deceive you too, if you let him.  He says he’s not Muslim, but I find that hard to believe.  At the very least, he’s a Muslim sympathizer, which is nearly just as bad.
 
I’m sorry, but he asks the stupidest questions, and then acts as if it’s something profound. Reminds me of a hen, who cackles like she’s laid an asteroid when she lays an egg.  He still hasn’t figured out who I was referring to above. Or perhaps he has, and wants to begin his usual inquiry, where he asks a stream of questions which go nowhere, just like his ahistorical ideas are headed. He is one of the most dangerous liberals, because he’s like a chameleon, and is hard to spot.  Michka, Travil, and Badlose are easy to spot, their insanity isn’t disguised, but Mufasa appears sane often, and deceived many with his subtle and sly capers.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Pardero Added Jul 15, 2018 - 2:40am
Ryan Messano,
My tolerance makes me appear as a "spineless jellyfish" to you, but my tolerance had defined limits. Moderation can be a virtue, whether it be applied to tolerance, or applied to scolding.
 
You state that Mustafa Kemal is a "dangerous chameleon." The truth is, you have identified a highly intelligent adversary that takes exception to your intolerance. It troubles you that you are unable to intimidate or bully him. He is impervious to your imagined authority directly from God.
 
Your narrow world view, which could be characterized as Christian Taliban, cannot conceive of a virtuous person that has tolerance for other belief systems.
 
I tire of your broad brush strokes that paint some as liberals, while others are judged proper conservatives. Most thoughtful people have some beliefs that could be labeled liberal or conservative. I have Mustafa as center right, though his tolerance and appreciation for cultures makes him appear liberal to you.
 
James Travil has some eclectic beliefs, but for the most part, could be considered a moderate. I have much common ground with him, and he has proven to be a valuable and much appreciated anti-war ally.
 
I have always considered myself to be far more conservative than any big government war mongering neocon, as I take the Founder's admonitions against foreign entanglements to heart. Your ally, EXPAT, has never seen a war or intervention that he didn't like, and he puts much time into defending such activities, when he isn't distracted with being a drunkard or fornicating with Thai maidens. You two make an interesting team.
 
Although your delusions of grandeur have you believing that your 'mission from God' is immensely important, James has actually contributed more to society, and eventually to posterity, just by raising children. Your own contributions pale in comparison.
 
You may be flattered to know that you have polarized many people, though forcing them to take a stand to the left of you, seems counterproductive.
Gerrilea Added Jul 15, 2018 - 5:17am
Pardero-- Well said, and spot on.  Just had to stop by before I head off to work this morning. You are a true torchbearer of honest communication, may I learn to be as eloquent and patient.
 
Blessings and Peace.
 
~Gerri
 
Pardero Added Jul 15, 2018 - 10:05am
Gerri,
You are much too kind. 
Have a pleasant and productive day at work. I am living in my truck at the moment, as the hauling has been delayed. Naturally, I have a good supply of Sonya apples, among other things.
I ain't complaining, as I have parked where I can get internet service, though it is slow and dodgy.
Carole McKee Added Jul 15, 2018 - 11:57am
Ryan:  I simply identified stupid decisions and ideas. Stupid decision and ideas? Stupid by proof of fact? Or by your opinion?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
st
Jeff Michka Added Jul 15, 2018 - 12:19pm
Ryan cries and whines about people who will stand up to him, even in face of his attacks, those who don't want his "approval," because nobody NEEDS Lyin Ryan's approval for anything, much like those that grabbed his saggy, scrawny ass and tossed it, crying tears, out of a city council meeting that didn't need Ryan's approval.   Real "alpha male" Ryan.   Now, I 'm still enjoying last night's rehearsal and there's more hate comments to read. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 15, 2018 - 1:03pm
I’m seeing a lot of Bible babble on my article.  I do enjoy the random Bible babble.
James Travil Added Jul 15, 2018 - 2:49pm
Garbage! Any and everything lying Ryan posts is useless garbage. He doesn't get to define moderates like me, or get his way in anything here. He is a pathetic omega male who can't even win over a single woman! His punny arguments against the First Amendment have fell flat and converted no one to his fake conservative phoney Christian deceptions. 
Doug Plumb Added Jul 15, 2018 - 2:53pm
Mustaf re "Doug, 40 years, full time " Applied ? Science, engineering, finance? Do you teach?
Doug Plumb Added Jul 15, 2018 - 2:53pm
This whole Ryan thing is getting very old.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 15, 2018 - 2:58pm
Doug, applied, using and developing theoretical tools.
Support Vector Machines, Bayesian analysis and lately universal efficient linear solvers for large systems.
 
I do not teach. I am a cave troll.
John Minehan Added Jul 15, 2018 - 3:43pm
"Monsieur l’abbé, je déteste ce que vous écrivez, mais je donnerais ma vie pour que vous puissiez continuer à écrire.'  Attributed to Voltaire, probably a restatement of his apparent attitude by a Biographer. 
 
It seems to have gone out of fashion unfortunately. 
wsucram15 Added Jul 15, 2018 - 8:37pm
Stop arguing with him everyone, its what he wants. Im telling you what I was told by a much higher authority.  Just let it go, you cannot win, internet arguments are pointless. 
Discussions are productive, arguments and insults are a waste of your life and time. 
Just a thought.
James E. Unekis Added Jul 15, 2018 - 8:42pm
Thanks for the sanity check wsucram.  Well said.
wsucram15 Added Jul 15, 2018 - 8:56pm
N/p James..N/p
Ryan Messano Added Jul 15, 2018 - 10:09pm
If you were listening to the Highest Authority, Jeannie, you’d agree with me.  You may want to appeal that last advice you got to a higher court.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 15, 2018 - 11:09pm
I do appreciate all of the comments.  Thank you all even though I lost track of everyone commenting.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 16, 2018 - 5:52am
re "universal efficient linear solvers for large systems." Any method better than SVD / Householder?
Stephen Hunter Added Jul 16, 2018 - 7:44am
Totally agree Jeffrey, free speech works for 360 degrees of thinking. But when does it digress to slander? Guess that is for the courts to figure out. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 16, 2018 - 8:10am
Doug, SVD is generally poor for large systems as it is essentially computing the inverse of the matrix, when all you are after is the solution.  When the condition number is large this is also a problem. There has been much work done on linear solvers, linpack for example, but it is an array of different methods some which may work well for your case some which may not. To obtain a good one for your case you either have to find one or develop one. We are are looking essentially for the "one solver" to rule them all. Of course, that is impossible, but we may get close. Finishing book soon. I wont be able to be more explicit without doxing myself.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 16, 2018 - 10:29am
Gilbert Strang of MIT got me into linear algebra. I'm doing a second applied L.A. course after doing his basic 18.06 for engineers. I'm 54 this year, a while since I got my EE degree, from an ordinary school.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 16, 2018 - 10:57am
Doug,  at 54 that is impressive.  Strang is good, my teacher was
Peter Lax . Linear algebra is a deep and extremley fascinating subject.
Moreover, it is the foundation of almost everything, including quantum mechanics, strangely enough.
 
Matrix analysis, which of course, is closely related is also important.
 
The following are always nearby
 
Bhatia
Horn and Johnson 1 
Horn and Johnson 2
 
Mustafa
Doug Plumb Added Jul 17, 2018 - 10:49am
I have Horn and Johnson. When I finish this MIT 18.085 I'm doing calc of variations and tensors, or pure math. Not sure. I stopped doing tensors yesterday, I understand the Gram matrix now.
Pardero Added Jul 17, 2018 - 1:34pm
Hey, everybody! I just read that  Cold War II is finally over!!
 
Jeffrey Kelly, 
I know you don't like President Trump, but he is a peacemaker.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 17, 2018 - 2:53pm
Trump is Putin’s bitch.  I think he spent all that time alone with him to give him a nice blow job with some overtime mixed in.
 
Wait, was that unnecessarily crude?   Probably.
I think I’ll keep it....
;)
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 17, 2018 - 2:54pm
I am exercising my free speech after all....
LOL
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 17, 2018 - 4:16pm
Pardero,
re:'Hey, everybody! I just read that  Cold War II is finally over!"
 
Ill believe it when I see it, but the news is surely pissing off alot of people,. Did you see Brennan? Now there is a peacemaker for ya.
 
Good article and interview with Greenwald here
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 17, 2018 - 4:22pm
Doug,
re:" I understand the Gram matrix now.":
 
Pretty cool, no?
Doug Plumb Added Jul 17, 2018 - 8:52pm
Linear algebra is very interesting. In school I thought it was a bore, I would like to learn pure math through it.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 18, 2018 - 12:45am
Doug, there is alot of good "pure" math just in linear algebra. 
 
After that, there are two primary directions out of linear algebra that come to mind.
 
The first is Functional Analysis, which is  just infinite dimensional Linear Algebra. But here you will need some basic measure theory. All finite dimensional vectors spaces of the same dimension are isomorphic but the same is  not true in infinite dimensions. And there one better be very careful. Much of the intutiion one devloped in linear algebra is plain wrong there. Moreover, infinite dimensions are where the field theories of fluid mechanics and quantum mechanics evolve so these are not just abstractions but real applicable infinite dimensional objects. Here you will learn Hilbert and Banach spaces  and linear operators on them among many other very beautiful and useful things.
 
The second is Group Representation Theory, the representation of groups as linear transformations on vector spaces.   Important in mechanics with symmetry and quantum mechanics it is also both very beautiful and useful.
 
Enjoy,
Mustafa
Jeff Michka Added Jul 19, 2018 - 6:12pm
And funny, but Xtains trying to "debate" Muslims run away when confronted with attempts to just shout them down and make wild accusations they are violent, and the Muslim doesn't run and hide behind another Xtain that comes in to takeover the discussion, because Xtainity has been left "hanging,"  Well there was one nail left....
Doug Plumb Added Jul 20, 2018 - 5:35am
Thanks for the advice Mustafa. I may be too old to learn the really advanced theories.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 28, 2018 - 8:16pm
But you aren't too old to learn more advanced conspiracy theories, are you PlumbDoug?   Why don't you expound on the moon landings as directed and filmed by Stanley Kubrick?  Alex Jones is reading...you can still be a big deal with the goyim.

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