Objective Vs. Subjective

Objective Vs. Subjective
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In ancient Athens, there was a large division caused by two differing schools of thought.  On one side was Socrates and his followers who asserted that there were absolute truths that could not be circumvented.  On the other were the Sophists like Protagoras, who asserted that man was the measure of all things, and that truth was relative.  The result of that was why we were given the First Amendment by our wise founders, who realized that man is corrupt and easily deceived, and that when in this state, he often can be vicious and inhumane to those who tell the truth.  Socrates was convicted by a jury of 500 of "corrupting the youth", for simply telling the truth, and sentenced to death.  He drank the hemlock, and so passed the man who is viewed by many as the Founder of the modern day university.  Sophism is the destruction of societies.

 

Fast forward to today.  America has many who think that right and wrong are a matter of opinion.  You will often find those who view truth as relative often have the most corrupt personal lives and the least grasp of history. They will fancy themselves to be experts, but if you examine their lives and their words, you will find that their lives are often corrupt and selfish, and that their reasoning is devoted to simply  upholding pursuing their present mediocre paths. 

 

So it is important to understand what objective and subjective mean, so we can determine if our beliefs are objective and true in all ages, or if we are just creatures of indoctrination, and our beliefs are shaped by the popular culture, media, and schools, and similarly indoctrinated friends and family.  Objective truth is that which can be proved outside our minds, with facts that will never change. Subjective truths are ideas which are true only in our minds, but cannot stand up to scrutiny.

 

The problem today is tens of millions of Americans think that if something is popular or is upheld by experts, than it must be true.  They accept what they learn in college and what the hellivision tells them.  They have no filter to compare new information to.  With the shrinking libraries and the increased use of porn and drugs, we have a steadily growing corrupt and ignorant part of the population which loves to shout their opinions and hates to take the time to educate them. 

 

So what is the solution?

 

It's easy.  Go back to the habits we once had.  Get rid of your hellivision, ban porn, ban psychotropic drugs, and read history.  All of the aforementioned habits are absolutely free, and all of them will result in the wise and virtuous citizens who we once had, and who were responsible for founding our nation.

We will either have peaceful slavery, or dangerous liberty.

 

Few can handle direct confrontation over their beliefs.  We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps.  Such risible hyperventilating are the extremes that those who hate cognitive dissonance will go to to defend their current beliefs.

 

In conclusion, we may all profit from these words.  If your ideas cannot stand up to brutal and scathing criticism, then maybe your beliefs aren't worth having?  Fire is the test of gold, and adversity of a strong man.  Seneca.

 

“Harsh and direct disagreement places thought under pressure. That’s its point. Pressure can be intellectually productive: being forced to look closely at arguments against a beloved position helps those who hold it to burnish and buttress it as often as it moves them to abandon it. But pressure also causes pain and fear; and when those under pressure find these things difficult to bear, they’ll sometimes use any means possible to make the pressure and the pain go away. They feel unsafe, threatened, put upon, and so they react by deploying the soft violence of the law or the harder violence of the aggressive and speech-denying protest. Both moves are common enough in our élite universities now, as is their support by the powers that be. Tolerance for intellectual pain is less than it was. So is tolerance for argument.” Paul J. Griffiths

 

Comments

Leroy Added Jun 7, 2018 - 9:18pm
They are absolute truths.  We don't always know it.  We can't always prove it. Logic and reason are our tools, but humans are also flawed.
 
When I was a child, I toyed with relative truths.  It was common to hear someone say, "Everything is relative, man."  I'm sure I said it myself.  As a child, I thought as a child.  As a teenager, I rejected the notion that everything is relative.  It is the only way that we can exist.  Things are what they are.  A is A.
 
Quantum physics is often thrown out there as proof that certainty doesn't exist.  I would like to remind those that it is only a theory.  It is incomplete.  I take the Einstein position.  If I am wrong, at least I am in good company.
 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 7, 2018 - 9:19pm
Ryan,
re:"
We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps."
 
That is a strong claim.  Can you support it?  With evidence?
If not, then you have just told  a lie.
 
In that case, is this an objective truth or a subjective one?
 
 
Also,
re:"Objective truth is that which can be proved outside our minds, with facts that will never change."
 
Can you please name one?  and indicate  a reference to its proof?
 
Mustafa
 
 
Chet Ruminski Added Jun 7, 2018 - 9:36pm

The simple measure is pain and discomfort. If the action of man causes pain then it is immoral.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:08pm
Amen, LeRoy.
 
5, Mustafa.
 
If you’ve been on WB for the last week, you ought to kno 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:10pm
w who I’m talking about without me spelling it out, Mustafa.  I’m kind of shocked anyone doesn’t know who I’m talking about.
 
One objective truth is you have never listed five biographies of the Founders you’ve read, and no further comments will be directed to you from me until you list them.  Kudos for being stubborn.  If only it were for a good and noble cause.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:15pm
Ryan,.
re:"One objective truth is you have never listed five biographies of the Founders you’ve read,"
ok, you got me. You know one objective truth.
 
But you are sidestepping again:
 
re:"
*******************
We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps."
 
That is a strong claim.  Can you support it?  With evidence?
If not, then you have just told  a lie.
 
******************
 
Mustafa
 
EXPAT Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:18pm
Ryan. Corrupt is in the mind of the beholder! I live in a society where SURVIVAL dictates morality. You are fortunate enough to be able to choose your lifestyle. Others do not have that luxury.
I have seen an incredible, at least to me, ability to moralize bad behavior, in the name of good purpose. i.e. "I stole the money to pay my mothers hospital bill."
Even the Right wing is promoting Trumps pardoning of convicted criminals. "She sold drugs, because she needed money."  I agree that the sentencing of many people is outrageous, but fix the system, don't subvert it!
 
Philosophy helps us to consider alternatives, but survival determines behavior.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:20pm
They feel unsafe, threatened, put upon, and so they react by deploying the soft violence of the law or the harder violence of the aggressive and speech-denying protest.
 
 
Sounds an awful lot like some of your behavior sometimes Ryan. Its okay though, we're all human. I hope you find some happiness. 
 
Pardero Added Jun 8, 2018 - 12:18am
Ryan Messano>"Fire is the test of gold, and adversity of a strong man."  Seneca.
 
I am particularly fond of that quote. The Romans were particularly capable with catchy turns of phrase, though translators deserve a lot of credit.
 
In some respects, you are preaching to the choir. This isn't exactly a den of iniquity. Not all of us are motivated to proselytize or attempt drastic changes to society, though many here, likely get a lot of satisfaction out of their contributions, if a bit more modest than your grandiose schemes, are of great value to others.
 
MEFOBILLS has shocked many, with his facts, which terrify some, and others secretly agree with. Many avoid him or pretend he doesn't exist. I doubt if you can countenance some of his ideas, and if you cannot, I would have to question how thorough your research has been. 
 
I admire the fire in your belly, but you risk burnout. In principle, I agree that it would be good for society to return to the virtues and values of a previous age, and eschew the hedonism and loss of traditional roles, for which we were designed. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:32am
Yes, Expat, somewhat. However, there are many in adverse situations who refuse to do the wrong thing, no matter what.  This is heavily tied to having a moral upbringing, and having a stable father and mother dynamic in childhood.  It’s also heavily tied to literacy.  The more a child or adult learns of the great figures of the past, the more they are able to put their problems in perspective and work through them.  There is no problem we face today that wasn’t confronted and overcome by someone in the past.
 
Selfishness in the poor and rich is a big problem in America.  The poor are time wasters and don’t actively pursue getting out of poverty, and the rich are hedonists who care little about the plight of the poor. That is my opinions.
 
”Rivers and men both run crooked when they follow the path of least resistance”
Thoreau 
 
 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:34am
I didn’t do that Jeffrey, but if you’d retire that blatant sign of sybarism that is your avatar, and pursue virtue, your concept of right and wrong would shift tremendously.  Until then, your desires will continue to alter your perception.  Self denial is necessary to see the truth.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:35am
*sybaritism
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:41am
Amen, Pardero, like you, I’m a big fan of the Ancient Greek and Roman sayings.  So many are so little used and so very relevant to today.  
 
Rarely do men inderstand the consequences of their actions and still choose to do them.  More commonly,  they are deceived to think their choices are harmless until it is too late.  This is why histury os so valuable.  She clearly shows the results.  Wise men learn from others mistakes, a fool barely learns from their own.
 
I’ve largely agreed with MEFOBILLS on all Ive seen from him so far.
 
Thank you,
 
Yes, my message is better suited to a church, where people understand their faults and wish to do something about them.  No one can really change any of us unless we desire to change.  
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 8, 2018 - 9:04am
Ryan,
 
 
being fond of Ancient Greece,
 
do you know what a dialectic is?
 
 
3rd time
re:"
*******************
We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps."
 
That is a strong claim.  Can you support it?  With evidence?
If not, then you have just told  a lie.
 
******************
 
Mustafa
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 9:25am
Mustafa, like most Muslims, you are passionately misguided.  You mean well, but careen down a wrong path.  
 
That said, you’ve been told numerous times, that if you want to play Socrates, you need to lost the five biographies of the Founders you’ve read.  You’ve steadfastly refused to do so, but insist on continuing to ask questions. 
 
Your questions, Im sorry to say, lack insight.  You just asked a question four times that nearly every one here on WB knows the answer to. Try to use your brain and think.
 
Any further repeats of your inane questions, and any comments without those biographies will be deleted.  It’s sad you refuse to learn without force.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 9:26am
*list
*three times 
Bill Kamps Added Jun 8, 2018 - 9:28am
It's easy.  Go back to the habits we once had.  Get rid of your hellivision, ban porn, ban psychotropic drugs, and read history.
 
Not sure it is easy.  People were deluded with yellow journalism, and with snake oil salesmen long before tv and the internet.  Just because information dissemination was a little slower, doesnt mean people were smarter, or there werent those out there trying to delude the public.  Just because there was no porn online, doesnt mean women werent bought or kept for men's sexual pleasures. They dont call it the world's oldest profession, for nothing.  Human nature hasnt changed all that much since the times of the pyramids.  Add to that, we cant ban technology, it isnt that easy without creating a real police state, not an imagined one like some people claim the US is. 
 
I dont believe people once lived in a virtuous world, and now it has become something different. 
 
Having said all that, yes there are things that are true.  1+1 does not equal approximately 2, or only sometimes 2.  There are facts and opinion in all situations, and often times people that disseminate the news confuse the two.  The internet is full  of stories with made up facts, sometimes for no reason that I can tell other than the amusement of the authors. I read the other day about these strange skulls found in Antarctica, complete with photos and everything.  Of course it was just a hoax. 
 
Particularly troubling to me is the lack of context that the news provides.  Every time there is a new version of the flu from some type of bird or animal, the  media panics when a handful of people die.  What they always fail to tell us is that 100 people die every  day from some form of the flu, so this is normal.  It is just how it is.  So to have 3-4 or 10-12 die from new form of flu is not news or scary.  If that number got to 300-400 in a day, well then we have something to be concerned about. 
 
Context tells us the facts about what is normal, and what isnt.  We live in a very big country, so something like car wrecks, that are rare for the average individual, are so common place that every day 100 people die from them, and yet most people dont realize this. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 8, 2018 - 9:41am
Expat,  so you live in a state of anarchy! >> I live in a society where SURVIVAL dictates morality.>>  Society never dictates morality.  Society am suggest save actions to choose from.  Some being more moral then others and different levels of risk.   You then choose between the risk your willing to take over the breaking of your morals.   Most people are risk avoiders, however; history presents many examples that avoiding risk initially typically result is having unavoidable and higher risks in the future.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 9:42am
True, Bill,  I would add a few things.  While yellow journalism, snake oil salesman and prostitution have always been with us, they were never as widely available, affordable, accessible, and anonymous as they are today.   Acquiring Wisdom isn’t instantaneous. It takes time, effort, and diligence, and these are eroded by hellivision, porn, and drugs.  
 
We competely agree that human nature never changes, but I would argue you have a police state when you legalize porn, drugs, and have widespread hellivision use.  We had no televisions in 1942, mostly, and banned porn and drugs, and had a far smaller government, and smaller police forces. With the legalization of porn in 1969, and the spread of drugs, the government has grown much bigger to deal with the consequences.  So crime, poverty, illiteracy, suicide, STDS, and illegitimacy are exploding, this necessitating a police state.
 
Its pure fiction that making a virtuous law makes a police state.
 
The Milgram Experiment shows how important laws are at shaping behavior.  Human behavior often confirms with laws, whether good or bad, most humans don’t care.
 
Bill Kamps Added Jun 8, 2018 - 9:56am
Its pure fiction that making a virtuous law makes a police state.
 
My point was to ban TV, and the internet would effectively require a police state to enforce it.   Obviously people would go to great lengths to circumvent the law, and the government would have to go to great lengths to stop them, if they were serious about it.
 
Making porn illegal would not stop it from being on the internet.  Just as gambling on sports in the US was illegal, but widely practiced on the internet.  The government could do what is done in some Arab countries and block the porn sites, but there are ways around them there, if one doesnt mind the risk of the police raiding your home to look for devices. 
 
Im not disputing that because these things are more easily available, more people are indulging.  I wonder if it is practical to legislate morality.  Prohibition did not work well, and that was simple compared to making tv and the internet illegal.   Various Communist countries have tried to legislate morality, as they saw it, and it wasnt very successful. 
 
We dont really have a police state as long as it requires a warrant to search people's houses, and as long as the government is not allowed to put spy equipment in our homes.  We both have read 1984 so we know what a real police state is.   We may have more of a police state than I wish, but it is still less of one than some places I have visited.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:06am
I’m not for banning television or the internet.  Note, I said to ban porn and drugs, and to get rid of our televisions.  I never endorsed getting rid of hellivision by force.  Education on its being one of the most worthless communication devices known to man ought to do the trick. 
 
Makong porn illegal would eradicate most of it.  It’s being illegal in 1942 in America didn’t stop all of it, but less than 2% of the men then were exposed to porn, contrasted with the 100% today, so it’s easy to see the benefits of banning it.
 
Morality was legislated just fine during our Revolution, not so much in the French Revolution.  Which explains why both nations are where they are today.
 
”The Constitution was created for a moral and a religious people.  It is incapable of governing any other”
John Adams
 
Without virtue, there can be no liberty.  Even the Greeks and Romans knew this, before Christianity.
 
I would posit we have more of a police state than we did in 1942. Our taxes are vastly higher, our government far more invasive, our crime rate is higher, our drug use is higher, our families are weaker.
 
When the man is strong, the government is small. When the man is weak, the government is big. 
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:08am
Ryan, is not porn the truth? Do people not copulate? Do they not seek the pleasure and comfort of the opposite sex? We have fought the "dug war" and it has been a national disaster. We have filled prisons with people who committed victimless crimes, and our brilliant patriotic president just freed one of those victims. There are more just her that need to be freed. Porn existed for a long time, and again, most people in possession of it, when it was illegal, were committing a victimless crime. The reason porn was "legalized" was because, like your writing on WB, it was considered "free expression." The "police state" of which you describe is the state that imprisons people who commit a crime, and yet, there are no victims. Just because someone disagrees with my moral convictions does not make them a criminal.
As Nietzsche said: "Convictions have done more to distort the truth than have lies."
I understand your point of view, though I cannot agree with it, I will defend your right to speak it.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:08am
Insistent, Mustafa.  But reasonable conversations are participated in by those with a basic grasp of the past.  It cannot be otherwise.  Not every opinion is equal, and those lacking an elementary comprehension of the past are not fit to be allowed in a conversation.  No ones stopping you from learning but you.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:12am
The rich and poor dilemma is actually miss stated.  The dilemma in today's society is class.  This society promotes classes.  The government creates barriers in class societies to prevent mobility between classes.   The rich want barriers to keep them and their prodigy in the higher classes that they are in. And since they are typically in control of governments they get their wish.
 
The lower classes want the opportunity to move to higher classes.  Civil Wars are fought almost exclusively over this dilemma.  The rich do not ignore the poor they instead try to reduce the pressure against their barriers preventing upward mobility because once broken downward mobility also exists.
 
The founders understood that they faced barriers from the monarchy that prevented their mobility.  The Declaration of Independence is a clear statement against class barriers.  A human is a human, the test of being some thing is well founded in Greece teachings.  And wealth is not part of that test.  Clearly stated in the declaration.  The Constitution that incorporates something for all the statements in the declaration addressed class by saying their shall be none in America.  Since the Constitution is a foundation of laws they were not preventing economic classes but preventing government created barriers to mobility between classes.  As always slavery will be brought up.   The answer may not want to be accepted and today seems poor but it is what it is.  The founders believed that the disconnect with the declaration would generate sufficient discontent to lead to the ending of slavery.  So they chose forming a country initially with slavery.   And it is clear that they were 100% correct in the discontent that breaking the principles of the declaration from slavery would generate.   They didn't expect the bloodiest war in the percentage of the population that would parish would by the level of discontent generated. 
 
So understand that throwing the declaration into the trash thought our national education system, and then trashing the Constitution based on it and replacing it with a barrier judicial system creating a class society will result in CIVIL WAR.   That is the story repeated endless times in history.  Discontent is inevitable, and only by following the declaration can a civil war be avoided.
Leroy Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:22am
Well said, Jeff.  I don't begrudge anyone for admiring the female form.  And, man, naturally being the more beautiful of the sexes, I cannot begrudge anyone who admires the male form.   But where do we draw the line?  Beastiality?  Pedophilia?  We have sex robots today.  Do we allow it, since it is victimless?
Bill Kamps Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:36am
I would posit we have more of a police state than we did in 1942.
 
Agreed.  Though there are multiple reasons for this.
 
”The Constitution was created for a moral and a religious people.  It is incapable of governing any other”
John Adams
 
Possibly.  I would say just because a Founding Father said it, doesnt make it absolute.
 
A Founding Father also said this.  "When the people realize they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic"  Ben Franklin.   I would submit that is what we are doing these days.
 
When the man is strong, the government is small. When the man is weak, the government is big. 
 
I would like to think this is true, however mostly people have generally been weak.  Governments in the past have often been small but at the same time they also exercised absolute control over their subjects, as in many previous governments ruled by Kings.  More democratic governments have grown not only because of law enforcement, but because politicians want more power, and people want more services.  See Ben's quote above.  So it is a virtuous circle that reinforces itself.  Politicians promise free things to the voters, and voters like "free" services. 
 
Bill Kamps Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:41am
Thomas I would tend to agree.  The Constitution is a compromise, not an ideal, which is what the Declaration is. 
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:47am
Thank you Leroy. Beastiality and pedophilia have victims. I will never advocate their practice, they are crimes against the weak, or those who do not understand. I feel the same way about people who understand more than others taking advantage of them and making huge profits due to someone's ignorance.
EXPAT Added Jun 8, 2018 - 12:20pm
 
Ryan.
You persist in thinking the world is the same as USA.
Selfishness in the poor and rich is a big problem in America.  The poor are time wasters and don’t actively pursue getting out of poverty, and the rich are hedonists who care little about the plight of the poor. That is my opinions.
 
Many parts of the world, have no social safety net. If you cannot afford medicine, you die!!!!!  Often survival dictates behavior out of necessity.
 
However, there are many in adverse situations who refuse to do the wrong thing, no matter what.
 
I haven't met them, and believe they only exist in your mind! Can you give me an example? If my child is dying, and needs a medicine, I will do anything to get money, Lie, Cheat, steal, prostitute, or even KILL YOU, if that will provide the funds needed. Even though, given a choice, I would do none of these things.
SURVIVAL dictates morality!!!!!!!!
 
The poor, are the hardest working people on earth, but it is to no avail, for most. A Rice worker in Buri Ram, earns 350 baht a day for 10 hours in the field. That's Roughly $10 USD. or $1 an hour.
 
Could you/would you stand bent over in the hot sun for $1 or would you sell your ass in Bangkok for 3000 baht , or $100? Especially if you had a sick child or mother!
 
SURVIVAL dictates morality.
EXPAT Added Jun 8, 2018 - 12:26pm
Mustafa is NOT a Muslim Ryan! He is pretending, but not good at it!
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 8, 2018 - 12:48pm
EXPAT, 
re:"Mustafa is NOT a Muslim Ryan!"
you are correct.  I never said I was. The presumption makes about as much sense as think you resemble your avatar.
 
re:"He is pretending, but not good at it!"
where I was pretending?   Is it from my moniker of the one who destroyed the caliphat and secularized Turkey? Or is it from my avatar?
 
Mustafa
 
 
 
 
Leroy Added Jun 8, 2018 - 1:15pm
"Thank you Leroy. Beastiality and pedophilia have victims."
 
Not if they are robots.  Robots are not children nor are they animals, despite the fact they can be made to resemble either one.  They are machines.  So, do we allow them to make porno movies using the sex robots that resemble children and animals?  Or, do we have no limits?
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jun 8, 2018 - 3:48pm
Strange, just wanted to praise the Ancient Greece intro. Then had scepticism. Well, at least I don't question truth, but I question if I know Sokrates and the sophists well enough to judge your statements about them.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 4:00pm
You are wise, Benjamin.  Humility comes before honor.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 5:11pm
Jeff, Porn is a lie.  We were sabotaged.  Porn is a public health disaster.
 
Liberty is impossible without virtue, and virtue is impossible with porn and drugs.
We already pay $700 billion a year for drug, tobacco, and alcohol issues, compared with $600 billion a year for national defense.
 
Every mass shooting from Columbine on has involved one or more of the following three factors: porn, drugs, or Islam. 
 
If we do not regain virtue, we will soon become the slaves externally that all internal slaves never fail to become.
 
Pardero Added Jun 8, 2018 - 5:16pm
Ryan Messano,
Thank you for that well considered reply. It means a lot to me.
I regret that you are intent on antagonizing some of my friends and associates, who are honorable and admirable, whether or not your fiat judgement found them wanting.
 
Your unorthodox approach, grabs attention, and for all I know, may be an effective tool, but you risk alienating some people permanently. It would be your loss.
 
I am not an Abraham Lincoln fan, but I like this quote, "I destroy my enemies, when I make them my friends."
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 5:37pm
Thank you Pardero, I love that quote too. Lincoln knew the Bible, and would have approved this from Solomon and Ecclesiastes.  He was the man who led a war after all.
 
My job is to disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed.
 
 
Ecclesiastes
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
 
Also, Socrates quote is marvelous:
"I am the gadfly of the Athenian people, given to them by God, and they will never have another, if they kill me. And now, Athenians, I am not going to argue for my own sake, as you may think, but for yours, that you may not sin against the God by condemning me, who am his gift to you. For if you kill me you will not easily find a successor to me, who, if I may use such a ludicrous figure of speech, am a sort of gadfly, given to the state by God; and the state is a great and noble steed who is tardy in his motions owing to his very size, and requires to be stirred into life. I am that gadfly which God has attached to the state, and all day long 1and in all places am always fastening upon you, arousing and persuading and reproaching you. You will not easily find another like me, and therefore I would advise you to spare me."
 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 8, 2018 - 5:57pm
I deleted my comments on your threads, as I found them. As I said: No comments on mine, and no comments on yours. Capisce ?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 7:03pm
Fair enough, Stone.
 
 
Pardero Added Jun 8, 2018 - 7:35pm
Ryan Messano,
That is so beautiful, yet loaded with wisdom. A wonderful pop/rock song used some of those lines.
 
Socrates the Gadfly. He is more than worthy of emulation, and his words will be around thousands of years from now. These are far different times, however, and I'd expect less success now, than then.
 
You have embittered a good man, who I hope doesn't resent me saying that he likely performs many Christian acts of kindness, every day. He is a parent and a paternal figure for some, that have no other, and he supports needy children. He has made a positive difference in many many lives. 
 
I thought you had grandiose schemes, but you seem to wish to preach to a little choir, that hardly needs it, while neglecting the congregation, let alone the village. 
 
There was a time that I attended some awe-inspiring Revivals. I hadn't considered it until now, but along with plentiful fire and brimstone, those amazing sermons shared another feature, they were inclusive. 
 
You have much to offer. You may want to consider tailoring your sermon to the congregation as found, not as you wish it was.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:12pm
Yes, Pardero, the Byrd's.  Socrates was wise in his day, but he wasn't dealing with porn and drugs. 
 
Who is the good man you speak of?  Chastisement is to make chaste.
 
Size matters little.  Right makes might. 
 
Truth distinguishes and discriminates, it can be no other way.
 
Thank you kindly, your words are noted.  While being kind to all is good, if this entails allowing the truth to be trampled, if it's not addressed now with words, it may one day be addressed with guns.  I prefer the former.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:48pm
Ryan M., the founders in the Declaration of Independence and throughout the discussion before the Revolutionary War and the creation of the Constitution were applying absolute truths thinking that could not be circumvented.  The most quoted parts of the declaration are: Truths to be self evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their CREATOR, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the
Pursuit of Happiness.   The truth stated is that class societies makes man unequal and takes away unalienable rights.  
 
Laws of Nature and of Nature's GOD entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind.  Another of those truths that can not be circumvented by man's laws.  The Ten Commandments are a compilation of the laws of nature.  And the statements of Jesus are also the laws of nature's god.  Consider the destruction of families receiving welfare and reward illegitimate children and also assist in creating classes because these single parent household are on welfare for decades and lead to many other problems that increase failure of the people and their children. 
 
That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, has to be broken down because through out history class societies often experience revolution, the American Revolution is an example.  If the government receives its power from the governed that not revolution would occur.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:09pm
Well said, Thomas, 100% agree.  They were very wise, despite their human frailties that the left unceasingly tries to use to throw the baby of their wisdom out with the bath water of their faults.
 
Absolute truth is known only by knowing God.  It’s sad that those who don’t acknowledge God attack the source of their rights and liberty.  If atheists in America hate God so much, they ought to move to China, which will teach them to appreciate their Christian heritage.
EXPAT Added Jun 8, 2018 - 11:03pm
Since you will not respond to common sense Ryan, I am posting links to expose your ignorance.
 
"Yes, Pardero, the Byrd's.  Socrates was wise in his day, but he wasn't dealing with porn and drugs. "
Classical Drug Use: Greek and Roman Drug Freedom - Robert R. Arthur


suburra.com/blog/2009/11/16/classical-drug-use-greek-and-roman-drug-freedom/



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Nov 16, 2009 - Classical Drug Use: Greek and Roman Drug Freedom ... The Greeks and Romans used opium, anticholinergics, and .... madi belle porn xxx teen porn online 89 porn gallery free live amatuer porn pics vids porn hub bisexuals.
 

Friday essay: the erotic art of Ancient Greece and Rome


theconversation.com/friday-essay-the-erotic-art-of-ancient-greece-and-rome-87859



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Feb 22, 2018 - Friday essay: the erotic art of Ancient Greece and Rome ... Simply put, sex is everywhere in Greek and Roman art. ... Ancient porn? .... Giving patients the 'right to try' experimental drugs is a political maneuver, not a lifesaver ...

History of erotic depictions - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_erotic_depictions



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Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 11:49pm
It wasn’t on purpose, Expat.  Thank you for your comments.  Been quite busy all day.  I’ve been under continuous attack by seven liberal snowflakes who are badly triggered right now, and are having conniptions.  
 
Im making sure the conniptions are memorable. If they are going to cry, I want to make sure they have something to cry about.
 
The Greeks and Romans had erotica, however, they didn’t have it in the The actual form we have now.  Porn is now more accessible, affordable, and anonymous than it has ever been before in world history.  Recall also that the Founders knew Greece and Rome a whole lot better than we do, and they made sure that the pagan habits of the two ancient societies were banned, including porn.  The question for you is why did they ban porn, and they knew history a lot better than we? It was because they understood, it’s lessons.
 
Contrary to revisionist history, drug use was not common in Greece and Rome.  Contemporary historians love to read our flaws into the past. 
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 1:13am
Ryan. How silly.
The Greeks and Romans had erotica, however, they didn’t have it in the The actual form we have now.
They used all means available in their day. Paintings, mosaics, sculpture. No, they didn't have the Internet (Chuckle).
Recall also that the Founders knew Greece and Rome a whole lot better than we do, and they made sure that the pagan habits of the two ancient societies were banned, including porn.
Excuse me. Where was porn banned? I thought it was protected speech. The first laws against Porn in America were in 1873, long after the founders were dead! 1776 - 1873, almost 100 years of porn.
 
[PDF]Sexual Practice and Fantasy in Colonial America ... - Indiana University


https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/iujur/article/download/23364/29533/



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by R Solomon - ‎2003 - ‎Related articles
object of draconian sex laws was deviant practices, for which colonial society ... colonial America, sexual practice, fantasy, colonial society ...... Porn Studies.

 
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 1:16am
I suppose you could link the early Salem witch trials to sexually banned material, but engravings of sexual activity came over on the Mayflower.
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 1:20am
13 best The Mayflower images on Pinterest | Sailing ships, Pilgrim and ...


https://www.pinterest.com/noahkellermann/the-mayflower/
All mayflower prints ship within 48 hours and include a money-back guarantee. ...... Puritan Sex: The Surprising History of Puritans and Sexual Practices.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 1:54am
Expat, you are clearly desperately defending your own lascivious choices.  
 
A painting on a wall is clearly nothing like a video
 
Porn was always banned in America until a rogue SCOTUS legalized it in 1969.
 
They didnt even have laws initially because everyone understood it was a gross evil.   The Founders were all Christian, and back then they knew and obeyed the Bible.  Since you are suddenly into quoting the Bible, what did Matthew 5:27-28 say when Christ was giving his sermon on the Mount? 
 
Umm, you are quoting the degenerate Indiana University Kinsey Study, which is the root of our mess.  He sabotaged our nation with his wicked Sex Report in 1948.  
 
I’m sorry, they weren’t debauched like you,  part of the problem with the internet, is libertines like you can defend your vile habits with the most absurd fairytales.  
 
Please go read books from that time period, they definitely weren’t into libertinism on the scale you think.
 
To justify today’s perversion you and many liberals have to try and find corruption in the past.  Of course corruption has always been around, but you exacerbate and exaggerate it.
 
Dino Manalis Added Jun 9, 2018 - 7:50am
 Truth is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of morals and values or the lack thereof.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 8:46am
Totally agree, Dino.  
TexasLynn Added Jun 9, 2018 - 10:29am
I have enjoyed the post and comments... my apologies for coming in late.  And here Dino gives me the segue to what I wanted to add/contribute.
 
I have often contemplated on subjective vs objective truth when it comes not to the physical but the existential.  More directly, does objective morality exist and (like the objective laws of nature) how set in stone are they.
 
I think the answer, the truth, to the above questions lie in answering another question.  Is there a creator (of all things)?  If yes, then morality is objective and its foundation is that creator; and He does not change.  BUT if there is no creator then there is no morality and the definitions we (or anybody) choose are as fluid and meaningless as all the rest of existence.
 
Just my two cents... :)
Doug Plumb Added Jun 9, 2018 - 10:47am
New guy re "The simple measure is pain and discomfort. If the action of man causes pain then it is immoral."
 
You must have taken this right out of some communist writings somewhere.
 
Ryan, are you censoring posts ?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 11:02am
Totally agree, TexasLynn, the clashes on here are often  between those who worship the Created vs. those who worship the Creator.  
 
Yup, Doug, I don’t agree with that.  Many times doing the right thing causes pain for us, but that doesn’t mean we stop doing it.
 
I delete Michka, profanity, lies, and I have deleted Mustafa for his obstinate refusal to list the five biographies he professes to have read, when his ideas aren’t remotely close to indicating he read them.
 
Are you familiar with the Milgram Experiment?  I’m convinced wise laws and rulers create wise and virtuous citizens and nations. 
 
Doug Plumb Added Jun 9, 2018 - 11:31am
I read the Milgram book. Scary.
 
Mustafa is claiming to have read these biographies ? Really he should list them. That's you calling him out and he deserves to be called out then. I thought you were calling on him to read them and there is so much noise around this, its hard to find out whats going on.
But I can't argue by your side if you censor.
I asked him how he worships God, all I get is *crickets*.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 11:57am
Yes, he only has to list them.  I can clearly tell he isn't that familiar with the Founders by his ideas, but he insists on throwing up smoke screens and pretending like I'm the one with a problem for demanding he give evidence for where he got his ideas. 
 
Profanity and lies will always be blocked.  This used to be understood in 1940 and we were better off for it.  Expectations are what many humans live up to.  Not lying and using profanity should have been taught in the schools and by parents, but if not, then it's each of our duty to ensure the spread of virtuous and wise ideas.  The Constitution wasn't created for just any idea to be spread.  It was designed to protect wise and virtuous ideas from the designs of evil men.  It's not hard to tell who is who on here if one knows what to look for.  Without virtue, there can be no liberty.
 
Yes, I find it hard to believe he isn't a Muslim.   His first article on here was a defense of Islam.  If you aren't a Muslim,why do you defend it so ardently and frequently is the question I have for him?  Trying to get a straight answer from him takes quite a bit of effort, and it's not always guaranteed you'll get it.  He puts more effort into obscuring the truth and evading it, than finding it and telling it.   
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 12:01pm
Thomas Sutrina:The rich and poor dilemma is actually miss stated.  The dilemma in today's society is class.  This society promotes classes.  The government creates barriers in class societies to prevent mobility between classes.   The rich want barriers to keep them and their prodigy in the higher classes that they are in. And since they are typically in control of governments they get their wish.
 
So totally correct.  Liberal high taxes and high regulations stifles innovation and creates a stagnant class structure. 
  
The lower classes want the opportunity to move to higher classes.  Civil Wars are fought almost exclusively over this dilemma.  The rich do not ignore the poor they instead try to reduce the pressure against their barriers preventing upward mobility because once broken downward mobility also exists.
Very true, America used to be the land of opportunity, but with liberals and their high taxes and high regulations, just because  you have a good idea doesn't mean you'll get rewarded for it today, and that is a tragedy for the individual and America.
  
The founders understood that they faced barriers from the monarchy that prevented their mobility.  The Declaration of Independence is a clear statement against class barriers.  A human is a human, the test of being some thing is well founded in Greece teachings.  And wealth is not part of that test.  Clearly stated in the declaration.  The Constitution that incorporates something for all the statements in the declaration addressed class by saying their shall be none in America.  Since the Constitution is a foundation of laws they were not preventing economic classes but preventing government created barriers to mobility between classes.  As always slavery will be brought up.   The answer may not want to be accepted and today seems poor but it is what it is.  The founders believed that the disconnect with the declaration would generate sufficient discontent to lead to the ending of slavery.  So they chose forming a country initially with slavery.   And it is clear that they were 100% correct in the discontent that breaking the principles of the declaration from slavery would generate.   They didn't expect the bloodiest war in the percentage of the population that would parish would by the level of discontent generated. 
Yes, very true again. 
  
So understand that throwing the declaration into the trash thought our national education system, and then trashing the Constitution based on it and replacing it with a barrier judicial system creating a class society will result in CIVIL WAR.   That is the story repeated endless times in history.  Discontent is inevitable, and only by following the declaration can a civil war be avoided. 
We are headed there now. 
Doug Plumb Added Jun 9, 2018 - 12:01pm
Profanity should be censored, unless it is part of the point being made. It would be impossible to describe the satanic sex education fully without using it on some level. Without virtue, there can be no liberty - absolutely.
There is probably more than one CIA / Mossad operative on here who spreads his efforts through multiple discussion groups and earns a living doing so. Perhaps an Israeli student..
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 12:08pm
Leroy: Well said, Jeff.  I don't begrudge anyone for admiring the female form.  And, man, naturally being the more beautiful of the sexes, I cannot begrudge anyone who admires the male form.   But where do we draw the line?  Beastiality?  Pedophilia?  We have sex robots today.  Do we allow it, since it is victimless? 
 
I begrudge men for admiring the female form.  If it isn't one's wife or fiancé, there is no reason to admire a woman not ones wife.  No man with self respect would appreciate another man ogling his wife, daughter, sister, or mother.  So why would any man ogle another man's wife, daughter, sister, or mother?  Porn is a national health disaster, and is ripping apart marriages creating nearly every dysfunctional problem in America today.  STD's, widespread poverty, widespread divorce, widespread illegitimacy, terrible learning environment for kids, suicide, and drugs are all related to the prevalence of porn in our culture.  A man that cannot confine sex in  marriage between a  man and a woman is not a man, he will remain a boy until death, and will never attain his full potential.  America is full of these pretend males today.  Most of the opposition to me is from men who have no self control and severely resent any control being exerted over them by anyone else.  It doesn't matter whether they are being urged to be better, they absolutely hate self control from themselves or others.  Failing to control themselves, they get violently resentful of others who even so much as suggest self control to them.  They love their slavery to themselves, and worship the self.  What you see is I have attacked their God, themselves, and they are coming after me for heresy and blasphemy.
 
What they don't realize is their Creator is on my side, and they cannot harm me at all.  Just like Cain and Abel.  Cain offered God something he didn't want, Abel offered him what he did want.  Did Cain change his course?  No, he did not.  He got mad at Abel and killed him.  The first murder in human history is still playing out thousands of years later on WB, where you see men who hate and don't believe in God still attacking those who serve and are accepted of Him. 
 
 
 
 
Doug Plumb Added Jun 9, 2018 - 12:53pm
With regard to classes, they exists so that upper classes can protect themselves from lower classes, but its not about money. If you are disciplined, prudent, etc, you do not want to be around the undisciplined and imprudent. They destroy.
There is a strong materialist tendency in most of the thinking on this forum. There is a value in looking at things from a purely rational perspective then comparing it to the empirical. Cultural Marxism is killing that consciousness, and the consciousness of virtue.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 1:18pm
Completely agree, Doug, on profanity being censored, and the lack of virtue.  Cultural Marxism, from that filthy non bath taking Marx is killing us.
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:18pm
 
YES Ryan. I enjoy the sexual pleasures GOD instilled in me! And use them as directed by the bible.
rel="bookmark">Genesis 1:1-31 “Go forth and multiply”
 
Sexuality and survival are equal in intensity as GOD wanted man to dominate the earth.
Genesis 1:28



God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
 
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christianity-and-sex_us_56cb6dc1e4b0ec6725e371d5

6 Things You Probably Didn’t Know About Christianity And Sex
Christianity’s history with sex is much more complicated than you might think.
The Bible’s teachings on sex have been interpreted in many different ways.  The early Christians actually started practicing celibacy because they were convinced the end of the world was near. Even within marriage, sex wasn’t always something that Christians were taught to enjoy.



Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:24pm
Yes, Expat, and the Bible is full of the punishments and pain that comes to all men who have sex outside of marriage, including porn and masturbation.  It was designed for marriage alone. 
 
The Bible has always been pro sex inside of marriage. The Song of Solomon leaves little doubt about that. 
 
The recent firefight on WB the last few days is simply because I, a man who doesn't use drugs or endorse any sex outside of marriage at all, am coming in contact with men who live by the creed, "If it feels good, do it".  Their values of good are far different from mine, and thus the titanic clash. 
 
The Huffy Puffy is a total delusion and should never be used to define Christianity at all. They approve of abortion, Islam, and homosexuality.  I only go there to figure out the latest lies the left is telling today.  Sometimes I have to intently study an article to find out the deceitful lies in it, but normally I can spot the falsehoods instantly.
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:26pm
Get educated Ryan!
The history of erotic depictions includes paintings, sculpture, photographs, dramatic arts, music and writings that show scenes of a sexual nature throughout time. They have been created by nearly every civilization, ancient and modern. Early cultures often associated the sexual act with supernatural forces and thus their religion is intertwined with such depictions. In Asian countries such as India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Japan and China, representations of sex and erotic art have specific spiritual meanings within native religions. The ancient Greeks and Romans produced much art and decoration of an erotic nature, much of it integrated with their religious beliefs and cultural practices.[1][2]
In more recent times, as communication technologies evolved, each new technique, such as
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_erotic_depictions
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:29pm
Not really, Expat.  Wikipedia, Google, and FB are all left leaning, and will show you anything to approve of any bad habit you have.  I avoid them like the plague.  The internet has made us dumber as a society, in my opinion. 
 
Each of these societies, when they took sex outside of marriage, collapsed.
 
When you study it, you find it's true. But you have to read about it in books, you'll never find it online. Online has no interest in telling you the truth, because then, if we had stable families and loving marriages with kids, most of us wouldn't be online.
 
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:35pm
Many faith groups discuss what the Bible has to say about sexual behavior. But there are few biblical passages that reveal Jesus' beliefs on these matters. In fact, a case can be made that he did not directly discuss sexual activity at all.
One source claims that the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) records 298 suggestions, recommendations and instructions by Jesus on how we should behave and believe. (We have not been able to verify this number.) Since he is recorded as mentioning sexual behavior only between 0 to 4 times, he obviously did not give it great emphasis. The record is totally silent about his attitudes towards the main sexually-related religious controversies of the present day: abortion, equal rights for homosexuals, same-sex marriage, masturbation, pre-marital sex, etc.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sex_jesu.htm
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:38pm
Ryan.
Did GOD create sexuality, sexual behavior and the intense pleasure of sex?
If yes, why are you against it, and deny yourself the pleasure that GOD gave you?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:46pm
Christ opposed all sex outside of marriage, Expat.  That's a fact.  The Founders knew history and the Bible far better than we do, and they opposed all sex outside of marriage too, though they weren't all perfect. 
 
Yes, Expat, God created sex to be enjoyed in the confines of marriage alone and no where else.  Proverbs 7 details  how sex outside of marriage destroys the man. 
 
Three powerful men were destroyed by sex outside of marriage. Samson, David, and Solomon.  If they couldn't handle it, I'm not going to be a fool and think that I can. 
 
History is littered with the records of men who were destroyed by sex outside of marriage.  Napoleon is a good example.  Jack London is another.  Men who let their desire for pleasure override their reason never come to a good end, and if they dominate a society, they are parasites that destroy it. 
 
This is what is going on on WB.  Men who hate to control themselves and rule themselves with reason are rebelling against a man who does.
 
Notice too how the women are curiously quiet mostly on this topic.  Know why?  Because the women of a society mostly go along with the men, whether they are good or bad.  Virtuous and wise men create a society where virtuous and wise women thrive and are respected. Wicked and foolish men create a society where wicked and foolish women are exalted. That's what we have today. 
 
A man who cannot rule himself is not fit to lead a woman in marriage, and if he can't lead a wife in marriage, he certainly isn't fit to lead a society.  Yet our nation is full of out of control men who greedily grasp for power, pleasure, and wealth, heedless of the poor, needy, and neglected.  This selfishness destroys the individual and the society. 
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:02pm
Ryan.
Christ opposed all sex outside of marriage, Expat.  That's a fact.
 
NO,IT IS NOT. I posted where Jesus had very little to say about sex, in or out of marriage.
Please post the scripture you think supports your lie!
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:08pm
To everyone who knows the Bible, it's a fact Expat.  You can use spurious and specious reasoning all you want, but the fact won't change.  The Bible teaches with three methods. Example, command, and necessary inference.  All three point to no sex outside of marriage. 
 
Matt 5:27-28, and I Cor 6, along with Galatians 5, and Ephesians, and 1 Timothy all explicitly outlaw all sex outside of marriage.
 
The only sex the Bible approves of is in marriage with a spouse.  All other instances have punishments or unusual hardships associated with them.  Every case of polygamy in the OT has massive dysfunction associated with it.  The First case was Abraham, and because of his polygamy the Jews and Christians are at war with Islam.  Should be quite clear what happens. 
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:11pm
Men are destroyed by sex out of marriage, by bigots like you who wish to impose their inhibitions on others. It is experiencing a resurgence today, and is still destroying good men in the name of sanctimonious hypocrites like you. That is why I even bother debating you! Otherwise, I would just leave you to your miserable existence, where you must find gratification on the Internet, instead of in the arms of a woman.
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:14pm
Allowing passion to override reason never works out well. That is why 50% of marriages end in divorce!
Thank GOD, I live where I have a choice.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:30pm
Ryan, I'm not so well-versed with the bible. Could you have a look into my argument here and tell me my flaws? When you have time.
 
http://writerbeat.com/articles/20765-To-Be-or-not-to-Be---A-Theological-Discussion-On-War-Peace-and-Moral
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:48pm
Virtue is not bigotry, Expat. We all have to choose between good and evil.  Those who have never learned self discipline often do not like those who pursue the royal high road of serenity and self control.  It’s natural. 
 
You’d be a hypocrite if you advocated self control, because you certainly don’t live it.  
 
You are an Epicurean.  You are a slave to your passions.  It’s sad. Until you learn to deny yourself, you’ll never know true peace.  
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:54pm
Very well written, Benjamin, and I largely agree with all you’ve written.  As a former Conscientious Objector, I can totally relate. I’m now about to buy a gun. 
 
Though I come from the Christian perspective, and you from the Jewish, our conclusions that war is necessary only as a last measure to thwart tyrants and their murderous ideologies is identical.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jun 9, 2018 - 4:29pm
Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate your expertise.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 4:38pm
My pleasure, Benjamin.  You are welcome.  
 
I was a big Obama supporter in 2008, so your journey to conservatism from liberalism resonates.   
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 11:09pm
 
Ryan says:
Virtue is not bigotry, Expat.
You believe you are morally superior to me, because you do not use what GOD gave you. Sexual pleasure! I believe availing ones self of the gifts of God, is glorifying his work.
The fact that you see yourself as superior to me, is Bigotry!
big·ot·ry

ˈbiɡətrē/

noun
noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries






intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
 
    
 
    
 
 
 
 







EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 11:13pm
 Those who have never learned self discipline often do not like those who pursue the royal high road of serenity and self control.  It’s natural. 
 
What is natural is reproduction and the pleasure it brings. To deny one's self that pleasure in the name of virtue, is a form of self loathing, not self discipline.  I do not dislike you Ryan, I pity you.
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 11:18pm
You’d be a hypocrite if you advocated self control, because you certainly don’t live it.  
Now that I have retired from the mechanized world of imposed discipline by religion. I have time for indulgence. I chose where, when, and with who. That is self control. Unlike you, who are a slave to 2000 year old morals, designed to control believers, I have a choice!
EXPAT Added Jun 9, 2018 - 11:29pm
You are an Epicurean.  You are a slave to your passions.  It’s sad. Until you learn to deny yourself, you’ll never know true peace.  
  
Isn't that LIFE? We all work to acquire a better life. To deny yourself the gifts of GOD, is self punishment called Masochism, or in this case  Messanoism.
 
I am a slave to nothing. I do whatever affords me the best life, such as living in another culture for a better life. You could never do that Messano. Without rigid code of conduct, you cannot make choices!
http://www.writerbeat.com/articles/19046-Why-I-live-in-Thailand
Ryan Messano Added Jun 10, 2018 - 12:06am
Virtue is it’s own reward, Expat.  I’m not superior.  If anything, I’m inferior, because I always knew sex outside of marriage was evil, since I was a twinkle in my fathers eye.  But, I indulged in prostitutes too, from age 33-35.  And, as I had been warned, it was full of misery, sorrow, was enervating, and dissipating. The difference between you and I is not our sins, it’s our response to them. I was saddened by mine and turned from it.  You cleaved to it and are in love with it.  Kind of like clenching a live wire and getting shocked to death by it, except your sin takes longer.  You can still let it go.  He is no fool who gives up that which he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.    
 
Im bigoted towards evil.  And I’m not sad in the least about it.  The sex drive was given to men and women for one reason alone, and that was to marry and have children.  Under no circumstances was a virtuous mans life to entail sex outside of marriage.
 
Pleasure alone is not an indicator of good.  Nearly all evil feels good temporarily, but has a nasty bite long term.  Denying oneself sex outside of marriage is not easy, but the effort is worth it no matter how long it takes.  To be like an animal and a servant to ones passions is of all slavery, the worst.  The worst slavery is that to self.  
 
Indulging the sexual desire outside of marriage is not self control.  It’s lechery and libertinism.  No wise man does it.  It is folly, and never leads to joy and peace long term for you or those whose lives you touch.  It is selfish, not selfless.  
 
Gods gift was to marry one woman and cherish her always.  It was not to have variety.  The man who said “variety is the spice of life ended up in the insane asylum”.  We agree on quite a bit, and if you only decided to put this in its place you’d achieve a potential that would not otherwise be available to you.  The world will remember you as a teacher of ideas to avoid or imitate.  Only those who love and practice virtue are remembered and loved Long after they die. Vice goes to the grave and is temporal, but virtue and love are eternal, and immortal.  
 
 
EXPAT Added Jun 10, 2018 - 6:58am
Ryan. Your self righteous attitude is irrational. God gave you the ability to have sex with many women, but you reason  his intent was for you to have only one. You are invited to a smorgasbord, but claim you were intended to eat only bologna on white bread.
You knew sex was evil from birth, unless someone else gave you permission. OK. As a baby you were sexually astute. But if you think something is evil, why are you surprised that you don't enjoy it?
Under no circumstances was a virtuous mans life to entail sex outside of marriage.
Who married Adam and Eve? When their offspring started having sex with their brothers and sisters, who married them?
What is it about go fourth and multiply, that you do not understand? If you are correct, would it not be, Get married and multiply? Your pompous dictates are silly!
"Wise men don't have sex?" Doesn't sound very wise to me!
I could agree, that when children are involved, there is a need for fidelity to raise them in a secure home. But I am past my child years, and can enjoy what GOD has allowed me to continue doing.
For you to pontificate that it is wrong, is just silly.
EXPAT Added Jun 10, 2018 - 7:02am
God and Testosterone that is!
Ryan Messano Added Jun 10, 2018 - 10:11am
No, self righteousness is creating ones own standards for righteousness.  I’m simply upholding Gods standards.  It’s funny how many of you who don’t make the slightest attempt to learn and obey the Bible love to call those who do “self righteous”.  You don’t understand the term at all. 
 
Im astounded you are trying to lecture me for not being a wicked fornicator, which is what you are.  You have it all backwards. 
 
It is evil, whether you enjoy it or not.  If evil wasn’t pleasurable, no one would do it.  But those who do are shortsighted and don’t realize it’s a trap.  
 
Shakespeares Sonnet 129 talked aptly of it:
The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action: and till action, lust
Is perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Enjoyed no sooner but despised straight;
Past reason hunted; and no sooner had,
Past reason hated, as a swallowed bait,
On purpose laid to make the taker mad.
Mad in pursuit and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind a dream.
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
 
It doesn’t matter that no human was here to marry Adam and Eve.  God did it.  As far as we know, they were faithful to their marriage vows.  There were people to marry their offspring.  It’s quite amazing how you exercise your intellect to justify your sin.  
 
Please stop perverting “go forth and multiply.”  It was addressing in marriage.  All sex outside marriage is looked at unfavorably in the Bible, and is nearly always accompanied by severe consequences. 
 
I Cor 10:8. God killed 23,000 in one day for the sin of fornication.  Fornication is a sin and you are boasting about it. 
 
I never said wise men don’t have sex, I said they don’t have it outside marriage.  
 
It is wrong, because you are setting a bad example, and depriving yourself of the peace and comfort that can only come from monogamy. A woman loves best when she is exclusively lived by a husband.  You are only robbing yourself.
 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 10, 2018 - 11:15am
BTW, one of histories great thinkers, Goethe, addressed this conversation in a book, Expat.  His “Faust” is a masterpiece where a man who is wise but desires women is offered a deal by the devil.  He can have his lust sated, if he will sell his soul.  He details what happens when a man pursues satisfying his lust and how it harms many others.
EXPAT Added Jun 10, 2018 - 9:53pm
 
Ryan. Faust, is fiction. As is your understanding of morality.
 
self righteousness is creating ones own standards for righteousness
You are the embodiment of selfrighteousness, and call those who enjoy life "a wicked fornicator."
How blind to your own hypocrisy, can you be?
EXPAT Added Jun 10, 2018 - 9:58pm
Once again:
What is it about go fourth and multiply, that you do not understand? If you are correct, would it not be, Get married and multiply? Your pompous dictates are silly!
Only you know GOD!!!!!!!!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ryan Messano Added Jun 10, 2018 - 10:08pm
Faust May be fiction, but life imitates art.
 
Oh, no, my friend, your understanding of morality is fiction.  All of human history denounces sex outside of marriage, when you view it logically and not through your lust lens.  
 
Amazing how you engage in evil even the mindless left recognizes, but see nothing wrong with it. Rather scary. The term is reprobate.
 
Go forth and multiply in marriage.  Selfish men like you mess it up for women and men.  You poach women who would otherwise make happy wives for other men, thus destroying your society. 
 
 
 
EXPAT Added Jun 10, 2018 - 11:55pm
Ryan. You have finally reached the point in delusion, where all you have left is innuendo and insult.
It is a pity that you cannot accept people for who they are. History does NOT denounce sex! In fact, it is the greatest motivation for human behavior.
But we have reached an impasse. You can return to your frigid wife, and I will head for the bar and seek a lover for tonight.
Adieu
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 12:16am
Nah, you’re deluded by your lusts.  It’s one of the oldest problems known to man.  
 
Straw man fallacy.  I never objected to sex, only sex outside of marriage. 
 
I am never less alone than when alone.  You need human companionship, and are desperate. 
 
Only God can give you what you are searching for.  You’re searching for love in all the wrong places.
Doug Plumb Added Jun 11, 2018 - 6:19am
Keep your eyes on the road Jeff.
Ari Silverstein Added Jun 11, 2018 - 8:52am
“The problem today is tens of millions of Americans think that if something is popular or is upheld by experts, than it must be true.” 
 
I’m not aware of a single person that would believe something like that.  That being said, it’s easier to hold beliefs that are popular because you’ll have less disagreements.  It takes courage to believe something that isn’t popular, but you’re trying to say that people equate popularity to truth and that’s insulting and arrogant.  It’s insulting and arrogant because sometimes what is popular is also true and sometimes it isn’t.  You don’t get decide what’s true or false for the rest of us.   
 
I would also add that experts are our best source of information and analysis.  Or would you prefer to be take guidance and advice from high school dropouts and crack addicts?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 9:32am
Ari, are you familiar with American Thinker?  The site has quite a few conservative Jews, and I think your worldview would shift if you were exposed to their thinking for two months of your life. 
 
As it stands you are a fierce libertarian, but do not understand the history necessary to form meaningful political conclusions.
 
The average AMerican watches nine years of hellivision, so they easily fit the definition of those who view popularity and truth as synonymous.  You don’t know this because you weren’t looking for it.  
 
I totally agree with this “That being said, it’s easier to hold beliefs that are popular because you’ll have less disagreements.”
 
People often equate popularity, Beauty, wealth, education, and prestige with truth. 
 
Like Abe Lincoln, Washington, Carnegie, and Rockefeller, I didn’t finish high school. Can you inform me what one can’t learn for free at the library that one has to go to school to learn?  Also, Lincoln was far more advanced than 90% of today’s college graduates, if you read his writings, despite having only one year of second grade for a formal education. 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 10:55am
Special note:  Stone Fried Morals has decided to arbitrarily delete my comments for no reason at all.  I deleted his because he is a dirty old man and has a filthy mouth. 
 
So, WB is alerted, this profane tyrant thinks he will decide what we say.  If he likes it, we can say it. If not, he will ban it. 
 
Ummm, Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were the same.  These leftist loonies are all the same.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 11:15am
The problem with men like Stone is they don't acknowledge God, so they try to play God.  Stone has no moral compass, and acknowledges no rules.  But he doesn't mind making up morals for others, and playing God to enforce them.
 
His idea is: if people don't like what you are saying, or they don't like you, you must be bad.  A total logical fallacy, but Stone is full of moral contradictions.
 
Look Stone, my rights don't come from you, anyone on WB, or any human period.  They come from God. If you interfere with them, you aren't just fighting me, you are fighting the entity who created you, and you will never win that battle.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 11:28am
Stone and his fellow authoritarian mixture of fake conservatives and leftist shills can't leave their safe spaces. 
 
This is for Stone, Bill, EABC, Cliff, and Mustafa.
Ari Silverstein Added Jun 11, 2018 - 12:13pm
I’m very familiar with American Thinker and don’t understand why you brought it up.  I’m not a fierce Libertarian. I understand plenty about history and pour founders.  There is nothing about television that would make one equate popularity to truth. So basically I either don’t understand or disagree with everything you just wrote. 
  
I just perused your comment history, it doesn’t surprise me one bit others would choose to delete what you have to say.  I think it’s high time you stop treating everyone like some uninformed television zombie and start being more respectful to others.  If you do, people might actually take the time to comprehend whatever it is you’re trying to say. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 12:30pm
You don't understand squat about history, or you'd know that deleting comments that you don't like was not the intent of the First Amendment.
 
You and the rest of the thin skinned liberal men on here have serious issues, and think you'll all band together to imitate the Greeks and their Ostracism. Keep your mouth shut and research, nitwit.
 
You are severely uninformed.  That's your problem. Do something about it and stop trying to crucify the messenger.  Your ancestors made a serious mistake in that department.
 
 
Doug Plumb Added Jun 11, 2018 - 1:15pm
Ari re "I’m not aware of a single person that would believe something like that.  That being said, it’s easier to hold beliefs that are popular because you’ll have less disagreements.  It takes courage to believe something that isn’t popular, but you’re trying to say that people equate popularity to truth and that’s insulting and arrogant.  It’s insulting and arrogant because sometimes what is popular is also true and sometimes it isn’t.  You don’t get decide what’s true or false for the rest of us."
 
Everybody thinks like that.
 
Just because 3 buildings collapsed straight down into their own footprint doesn't mean it was a controlled demolition, the experts tell us so.
 
Just because we are not all under a hundred feet of water right now doesn't mean that the AGW scientists are necessarily wrong in their predictions or that they have a political agenda. The experts at the UN tell us so.
 
Just because the Thermosphere has temperatures between 500 C and 1500 C doesn't mean a rocket can't fly through that to land on the moon. The experts tell us they went to the moon in the 60's but have forgotten how they got there and now can't get out of lower earth orbit.
 
Just because the Islamic book command Muslims to create a Sharia based society doesn't mean they are here to overthrow Western societies. Be nice, its the new way, don't hurt anyone's feelings, the experts tell us.
 
Shall I go on with vaccines, the holocaust, the banking system, the US economy, GMO foods, ....?
 
Ari Silverstein Added Jun 11, 2018 - 1:34pm
Ryan:  You don’t understand squat about the Constitution.  According to the First Amendment, you’re not permitted to enter my home and rant-on about politics.  Similarly, the owners of this website are well within their Constitutional rights to structure debate so that they or article authors can delete comments at their leisure. 
 
Oh and by the way, not everyone you disagree with is a liberal.  Speaking of liberals, your desire to have the state force unwanted speech in our private spaces, is exactly the type of big government intervention liberals like yourself love.  Capiche you uniformed nitwit?
 
Doug: I have no time for anti-Semites or conspiracy theorists.  
Doug Plumb Added Jun 11, 2018 - 1:44pm
Expat re "(Ryan) Those who have never learned self discipline often do not like those who pursue the royal high road of serenity and self control.  It’s natural. 
 
(Expat)What is natural is reproduction and the pleasure it brings. To deny one's self that pleasure in the name of virtue, is a form of self loathing, not self discipline.  I do not dislike you Ryan, I pity you. "
 
Expat, you clearly know nothing about Western philosophy. I shall give you the basic idea here:
  Man requires purpose. That purpose must be to strive to create and maintain peaceful and productive societies. This kind of purpose results in careful forward thinking wrt the consequences of todays activities. The idea is prudence.
  Societies based on "Do what feels good" rather than "do what preserves the future" behave like animals and animals cannot have societies because animals are not prudent. Lefties do not have a consciousness of prudence. Their societies end when the bodies start piling up.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 3:46pm
True, Doug. Leftists are animals, and think man is the measure of all things, and they believe in survival of the fittest. They are cold hearted wretches.
 
Ari, this website is a public forum, and no one except Autumn created it.  If people can’t take the heat, stay the hell out of the kitchen. Too many snowflakes with zero morals. Stone makes up morals as he goes and has as much of moral backbone as a jellyfish has a real one.
 
”The Constitution was created for a moral and a religious people, it can govern no other”.
John Adams 
 
 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 11, 2018 - 5:01pm
Ari S.  people keep forgetting that the Constitution limits ONLY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.   The states, Counties, Cities, villages, and citizens are not limited by the Constitution.   We are limited by laws.
 
The bill of rights limits governments reach into laws.  It applies specifically to the Federal Government but extends downward to any government.   The only time it extends to citizens if the actions cause harm.  The you have to present some harm of your property or your ability for life, liberty or pursuit of happiness.  And also show that what you want to do doesn't harm someone else. 
 
No one to my knowledge has shown that the internet actions of say face book or twitter has harmed in some measurable way the free speech of an individual since other methods are available on the web that may not reach as many people but have the potential of doing so.    
 
The baker of cakes with special messages on them does not do harm to if he choose to not bake your cake.  You can get someone else to make it, no harm.  Now some harm may occur because the baker that will make it is not a good, farther away, charge more, poor flavor cake, etc.  But will a dozen people all agree that you were harmed and not alternative existed.  
Luther Wu Added Jun 11, 2018 - 5:25pm
The best liars will offer facts as truth, but facts are not truth.
Facts are only facets of the whole shining diamond of truth.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 11, 2018 - 5:42pm
Google has the power to swing elections, Thomas. Other than that we agree.
 
 
Ari Silverstein Added Jun 12, 2018 - 8:58am
The point is that when Stone (anyone) decides to delete something, he is within his rights, as his rights are determined by Autumn and her rights are supported by the Constitution.  Or do I need to read the United States Constitution to you?  As for morals, anyone that treats people the way you do, clearly has no moral backbone. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 12, 2018 - 9:04am
A
Ryan Messano Added Jun 12, 2018 - 9:05am
A rod for the fools back.  
 
Solomon
 
How can you be of Jewish heritage and not know Proverbs?  
 
Shame on you!
Stone-Eater Added Jun 13, 2018 - 6:40am
Ari
 
Thanks. We may not agree very often, but you're always polite.
Ari Silverstein Added Jun 13, 2018 - 8:52am
It's true I don't know Jewish proverbs or non-Jewish proverbs.  Do you have anything substantive to offer by way of a reply to my last comment?
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jun 13, 2018 - 1:30pm
I just drop by to see where all the email flurry came from and won't read through all of your comments. I just saw the last ones and they made me laugh. I hope Ari will not misunderstand me. I was unreligious myself and I'm not terribly observant now (actually, I'm hardly observant at all, just rather recently got in touch with religion again and started reading the bible. I'm not doing the whole show and my family is not religious). Anyway, I find the idea very funny that a New Yorker says something along the lines of 'Proverbs? What Proverbs?' It's just hilarious because it hits on a cliche. It is entirely legit not to know the bible. And I don't even say that Ari doesn't know it. It was just good enough for a chuckle.
 
I don't want to step into your other discussions.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 13, 2018 - 4:15pm
This is a very entertaining discussion.  I will follow along.
Question Ryan, if we can’t look at any women except for our wife or fiancé, how do we find that person?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 13, 2018 - 5:25pm
BTW I find women beautiful and think they are the far fairer sex.  That doesn’t mean that I want to run out and have sex with the next woman I see.  I am a married man and take that seriously.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 13, 2018 - 8:07pm
Yeah, can't have Mrs. Butterworth on the table if the wife is not there.  Might stir up impure thoughts......LOL
Ryan Messano Added Jun 13, 2018 - 10:12pm
Yes, Ari, Solomon's aforementioned Proverbs perfectly address your criticism of my criticism.
 
TBH, Benjamin, I was always amused by the no nonsense stern rebuttals of people from the past to absurdities.  Some of my statements crack me up.  I'm simply imitating those from the past that I was influenced by the most.  Most have been dead for centuries. 
 
Coming to be virtuous is very empowering and enlightening, and nothing but God can complete a man or woman, IMO.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 13, 2018 - 10:14pm
We can't look at an immodest or indiscrete woman, Jeffrey.  When a woman isn't given attention for her body, she learns to cultivate her mind.  Women are often clueless today because they've been taught their value is in their body.  Women who are taught to be modest learn to be wise and virtuous.
 
Looking twice is lusting.  Adultery starts with thoughts, looks, and conversations to those one is not married to.
 
 
 
 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 14, 2018 - 8:33am
Ari
 
I as a foreigner am not interested in the US constitution which is actually quite old and is not respected by actual governments anyway - as I have the impression. But let's leave it at that. We in Europe don't make much fuss about constitutions and museum documents anyway. We live here and now.
 
And I don't like to comment on Ryan's farts anyway. Got no air refreshner here LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jun 14, 2018 - 8:51am
BTW:
 
The bible has good educational stuff in it for illiterate starters. So has the Quran or the Buddhist scriptures. But it does NOT represent TODAY's world. It didn't even represent the time it was written. 
 
I have many friends who are Christian or Muslim. And they say: Don't judge. God or Allah are not real. They are just a picture of a teacher who says: Please behave. Don't hate or fight each other, because you're all the same in the end. The herder from Somalia is deep down the same as the Hiphopper from Brixton. They just don't know it. 
 
Because WE create differences. Not god or allah or whatever. I for myself look at the philosophical part in religion. And for that I don't need a god. Because WE created religions, not a god. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 14, 2018 - 9:31am
Stone, the Constitution is what makes America great.  
 
You repeated the same mistake of the sophists, which the whole article was about.  They too thought there was no absolute truth, and that we live in the here and now.  Like them, you even go after those who tell absolute truth. Like them, you are headed for destruction.
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 14, 2018 - 9:33am
Yes, it’s because of men that women are preoccupied with their looks.  That’s why I said they were taught.  Profanity isn’t allowed.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 14, 2018 - 9:37am
The Bible isn’t anything remotely close to the Quran or Buddhism.  It does represent today’s world.  
 
“The only thing new is the history you don’t know”
Truman 
 
“Appeal to anecdote” is a logical fallacy.  You continually relying on the opinions of your friends is why you so rarely find the truth.  The truth is rarely popular.
 
Jesus said “Judge righteous judgement”
 
We are all the same at birth, but our choices distinguish us.
 
Only those who worship themselves don’t need God.
 
 
 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 14, 2018 - 10:53am
Stone, the Constitution is what makes America great.  
 
Yeah. Except that your country doesn't follow it anymore, I guess.....
Ryan Messano Added Jun 14, 2018 - 6:36pm
Truly said. 
Pardero Added Jun 14, 2018 - 6:39pm
I see some consensus. : )
Ryan Messano Added Jun 14, 2018 - 8:25pm
It occasionally happens, Pardero. 
 
My newsite, if referenced by liberals for just two months of their lives, would cure them of their delusions.
 
It's not what liberals don't know that is the problem, its that they know so much that isn't so. 
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 4:37pm
Ryan Messano,
I did see a Pat Buchanan article!
 
I believe your website is an improvement over Drudge Report, because he is far too socially liberal. 
 
You may have noticed that I have aligned with anti-interventionists, no matter what their other beliefs.
 
I have to admit that your stories are well chosen, and unlikely to offend any who consider themselves conservatives, whether paleoconservatives, Tea Party, America Firsters, pacifists, Buchanan Brigade, or those that are troubled by the undue influence of AIPAC. Those that thrive on war, conflict, and spreading democracy, may not notice that you are not catering to them. Far too many sites already do, anyway.
 
I still don't care for how you treat my friends and associates, but you are running a pretty good news site. I will add it to my bookmarks.
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 4:55pm
By the way, American Thinker is most definitely neocon.
I actually support BDS.
I believe Palestine has a right to exist, just as I believe Israel has a right to exist. 
 
I have done little reading of the Bible since Sunday school, but I am certain that prophecy states that the Jews get the Holy Land after they accept Jesus as their savior, not before. I do not necessarily believe in prophecy, but I know that you do.
 
Please be aware the Israel has the highest percentage of homosexuals in the world. Look it up. They are not a righteous people, and are not the Israelites of the Bible.
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:03pm
Ryan Messano Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:09pm
Thank you, Pardero.  That was my design.  Drudge is socially liberal, which is a disaster long term.  Thank you for paying attention to it.  I wish there was another way to deal with the threat of liberalism, other than brute verbal force, but there doesn't appear to be any.  This is actually a kindness.  If they don't change with words, the next step is a Civil War, and conservatives won't be the ones starting it, but we will end it, just as we did in the first one. 
 
American Thinker does have a lot of conservative Jews, but I don't look at them as Neocon.   I know Israel has a lot of social debauchery, so does America.
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:16pm
Ryan,
Check this out, sometime. Supposedly libertarian, but Buchanan and Coulter are prominent contributors.
Taki's Magazine
 
I gotta get some sleep.
Thanks for your replies.
MEFOBILLS Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:16pm
Please be aware the Israel has the highest percentage of homosexuals in the world. Look it up. They are not a righteous people, and are not the Israelites of the Bible
 
Any group of people that ignore Logos is doomed.   High percentage of homosexuals is a symptom.
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:19pm
Thanks, MEFOBILLS.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:20pm
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:34pm
Ryan, that is true! Believe me, I have no use for Islam.
 
My casual interest in ethnic origins and DNA testing has led me to notice all the Arab genes in areas of Europe that were conquered by Muslims, whether Moors, Saracens, or Turks.
 
All that foreign DNA in Europe is mostly from rape! Muslims have been spreading their doctrine via swordpoint and rape since its inception. I have no love for that religion, I am trying to be fair and impartial.
 
Gotta go.
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:35pm
Looks like a great article! Bookmarked. Thanks.
 
Gotta sleep now.
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:45pm
The darker shade of green is Arab genes, not to be confused with light green, which is 'Nordic' German. I assure you that some of my ancestors despised Muslims. 
 
Remember that the Polish Cavalry shut down the Muslims before they could take Vienna. 
The Poles are still shutting down Muslim invasions.
 
https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/
Pardero Added Jun 15, 2018 - 5:50pm
Charles, 'The Hammer', Martel defeated the Moors at Tours.
 
El Cid kicked some Moor ass, too.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 15, 2018 - 6:07pm
Interesting magazine, Pardero, thank you.  Didn't know that MEFOBILLS. I'm not 100% behind the Jews, and I am definitely opposed to liberal views.
MEFOBILLS Added Jun 15, 2018 - 7:03pm
The form of liberalism infesting the west emanates from the Frankfurt school.  
Ryan Messano Added Jun 15, 2018 - 7:06pm
Yes, Pardero, the Poles are doing a great job!!  El Cid and Charles Martel are favorites of mine.
 
So true, MEFOBILLS!  Communism is a disease and the weak minded are suckered by it.
MEFOBILLS Added Jun 15, 2018 - 7:23pm
Cultural Communism (CC) of Frankfurt school purposefully aims to break down culture by weaponising women and minorities.  High immigration is to break down historical roots i.e. breaking the ancestral bonds to hearth kin and country. 
 
(Beneficial knock on effects for finance plutocrats is to take wage abritage on immigrants life energy.  Exporting jobs is to also take wage arbitrage on foreign labor.)
 
This scheme requires owning the press, to then megaphone CC "belief system into the soft heads of sheeple."  It is funded by usury out of private banking.  The scheme is self reinforcing... break down families, install liberal attitudes, instill guilt, tell women lies about their role, and wind up blacks and people of color with false history and lies.  Create identity groups LGBTQXYZ.  Use the owned press and owned hollywood to hypnotize with CC messages.  
 
Nobody is allowed to look up at Oligarchical masters who benefit from the Frankfurt School Scheme.
 
Remember always that Finance Capital out Wall Street and London funded the Bolsheviks.  And yes, our friends are more than heavily implicated, so if you are an enemy of liberalism, then your gaze needs to focus ane look toward ((those)) who promulgate it.  
 
This is verifiable economic history, not ravings of a "conspiracy" theorist.  Conspiracy theorist is a term invented by CIA in order to shut down conversation and serious investigation into Kennedy assassination.  
MEFOBILLS Added Jun 15, 2018 - 7:28pm
Marx's third book ... if memory serves... "Capital" is pretty good.  He does make a mistake on compounding interest - and I expect he was forced to omit a factor in one of his equations to hide this secret method.  
 
Marx was funded by his in-group tribe mates, so no doubt he was under some pressure to lie. 
 
When Marx died, he said "I am a most unhappy man."  
Ryan Messano Added Jun 15, 2018 - 7:51pm
Wow, MEFOBILLS! Profoundly true!
 
Thank you!
Pardero Added Jun 16, 2018 - 8:19pm
Jeff Michka,
I have seen you do just fine, without the crudity. If I knew it was the best you could do, I could try to understand it, but I know you can do better.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 25, 2018 - 6:54pm
Better snuggle up with Ryan, Pardero.   I've said it before, check your load before worrying about mine. 
opher goodwin Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:54pm
FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!!
WE HAVE A SITUATION!!!
THE CHILD IS TAKING OVER THE SITE!!!
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:46pm
Opher, thats "the reverend" to you
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:24pm
you're on to me Mustafa! :)
Pardero Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:32pm
I take a quick look and find a brawl on this older article! 
 
Carry on.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:42pm
Ophers cheese has slid off his cracker.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:51pm
chicken shit deleter. better go around and clean up all your chicken shit
Stone-Eater Added Sep 7, 2018 - 12:54pm
Ryboy
 
Begging for attention so you lift up again all the crap you wrote ?