Will the Real Deep State Please Stand Up! (Don't hold your breath.)

Will the Real Deep State Please Stand Up! (Don't hold your breath.)
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Ever wonder who the real "Deep State" is? The hard right thinks they know, but they've got it all "bassackwards" as we used to say in Tennessee when I was growing up. The families at the top of the arms industry, the designers and builders of war machines like modern tanks, amazing aircraft, aircraft carriers, munitions of all kinds, even military clothes, boots, gloves, etc. are the top 1% of the top 1% (top 0.01%). Six out of ten of these super-rich folks never worked a day in their lives. But...very ironically in an alleged democratic republic, their political power is enormous.


The arms industry makes from 10 to 100 times more profit during war than they do during times of peace. Hmmm…wonder how naïve some of our readers here are?...how many here fail to understand that these politically powerful people perpetually lobby for war? And do you imagine they give a tinker's damn about anyone else's young kids going to war to be maimed for life or die?


Oh, and speaking more generally, how much respect do you think they have for those who aren't in their class? They laugh at them while their highly paid talking head con artists sell propaganda that blames everything on the easiest ones to blame, that is, easiest in the eyes of ignorant white racist xenophobes: minorities, the poor, and immigrants, of course!


(I'm a native-born, white U.S. male in my seventies, by the way, so it should be clear that I'm not one of those I'm defending here. But I've been watching this mess for a long time. It's not new in the least, but its getting worse. However, I'm an optimist and believe it had to get worse to get the complacent, self-absorbed, but more intelligent, slightly more informed fools among us to wake up from our long, blissfully ignorant slumber.)


These days there are quite a few con artists in media who effectively do the propaganda work for the super rich. They  fertilize and politically exploit fear in the minds of the already fearful. It's such an easy sale! It's called misdirection. It takes a huge mass of suckers’ eyes away from the real culprits, the super rich.


In fact, they use all this to get our culture to blindly worship their wealth as if it were synonymous with human merit, some kind of perverted moral virtue. Hollywood and its celebrity worshiping culture is a kind of microcosm of this phenomenon and a major factor promoting it. Yet the celebrities tend to lean left. The right then uses this to point out their debauched, immoral lives (ignoring their own, of course) in a transparent attempt to discredit anything left of Joe McCarthy (transparent, that is, to anyone half awake and interested in some semblance of reality).


Meanwhile, their blind worshipers forgive them for the heinously immoral behavior their right-wing heroes gleefully indulge in right in their faces. Then these pathetic victims, the suckers for these massive, national con jobs, elect people who drastically downsize the diplomatic services, the State Department, etc. Then they turn around and give tons more money to the Department of Defense and the military services. Perfect for getting votes and quasi-religious devotion from the fearful, paranoid, and very willing victims of their propaganda machine.


To support economic reality as opposed to the trickle-down fiction that accompanies self-blinding wealth and celebrity worship, take a look at this:

“The big winners are those in the top 0.01 percent. These folks, who have a net worth of more than $100 million, have seen their share of wealth more than double since 1995, from around 5 percent to just under 12 percent. Over the past half century, they have nearly quadrupled their share of wealth.”

- From www.cnbc.com/…


So figure it out for yourself. How can anyone with a few marbles upstairs believe that 0.01% of the population can get to own 12% of the total national wealth without something really corrupt going on? There is indeed something rotten in Denmark, as Shakespeare put it.


Of course, the ex-Soviet, Russian propaganda community has long understood social psychology deeply and its tremendous power for manipulation of public opinion. They are amazingly competent at using this technology to manipulate large chunks of both their own and our populations (as in "How to Easily Manipulate Russian (and U.S.) Dummies if You're a Brilliant Russian Chess Player with a Background in Writing Soviet Propaganda and in Cahoots with Expert Russian Digital Hackers").


This is Russia's new weapon of choice. They're much better at it than our government, but not necessarily better than the U.S. advertising industry or some parts of the right-wing media. However, the hard right media are now taking their cues from the Russian manipulators. The Russians feed our clueless, low-level political pawns via social media. Then the U.S. right-wing propaganda machine, without a clue regarding the real source of their disinformation, pick up the ball from their unwittingly Russia-baited U.S. audience and run with it.


After all, the expertise of the U.S. propaganda machine has always been selling the mass population of clueless, stateside political suckers their own equestrian fecal matter for financial and political gain and the power that comes with both. So there you have it, folks. The big question is where do we go from here.


Trump is doomed and running scared tootless along with a big chunk of his staff of political mafiosi. He and many others know what he's actually done. The Russians can stick high-voltage juice to him, too, any time they choose to. They may do exactly that when they have no more use for him. But we don't need someone smarter, more informed, and just as immoral taking his place, do we?


Robert, an interesting post. I was literally a foot soldier in the final stages of the Cold War, and was in Europe when the great drawdown of U.S. forces there began; slowly at first, but it kicked into high gear not long after the 1991 Gulf War. There were very many organizations and people highly-dependent on the Cold War economy, and many wistfully remember those days, when they had good, well-paying jobs. Never mind the fact that the world was never too far away from extinguishing itself! Back then, being in a more-or-less permanent state of war was "OK", as the war was fought by proxies, supplied and armed by both sides, of course. However,the fact that many of these former client states of both the East, West, and Non-Aligned countries now possess nuclear weapons changes the game entirely. So much for the honeymoon at the "end" of the Cold War. The U.S. and the West are unchanged. The Russians replaced the Politburo with oligarchs, but it is also essentially unchanged.
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 12:28am
Thank you, Michael. Yep! The game has changed but the players haven't changed much at all, have they? It's more a matter of how the qualities of human consciousness manifest in each culture and how expanded (or not) that consciousness is, in my opinion.
Robert, very true. In a weird way, the 1984 election leaps to mind. I clearly remember numerous people essentially echoing what the mad scientist said in the 1985 movie Back to the Future, where he realizes that Reagan was elected because he looked good on TV, which was kind of a fore and back-handed reference to the 1960 election. Fast-forward to the movie Idiocracy, when the President of the USA is also a "porn legend." Art imitating life, for sure, but whether it's dumbing down or smartening up remains to be seen.
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 1:28am
We don't know, but I'm placing my bet on smartening up. There are too many things, not just people, but even advances in technology, that are going to change the future so radically as the tech evolution accelerates and young people come on line as voters. The evolution of technology has already made a liar out of every conservative who has said alternative energy is impractical. It's now the major way new energy comes on line.
I got this quote from a Google search:
"The Big Green Bang: how renewable energy became unstoppable


May 18, 2017 - For the second year in a row, renewable energy accounted for more than half the new power generation capacity added worldwide. Sales of plug-in electric vehicles last year were 42 per cent higher than in 2015, growing eight times faster than the overall market."
This has happened because it's economically more viable than adding any other from of energy production. The right is still lying about this. Just a few short years ago, they seemed to be right to most people not technically aware or inclined to pay attention.
But they were wrong. And they're even more wrong now. (How wrong can you get? The right always seems to be testing the limits of "wrongness". Now we even have "alternative facts", which includes the economically impossible policy of reversing this energy revolution.)
Bill H. Added May 2, 2018 - 1:29am
Robert - you pretty much nailed many of my concerns.
Yes, technology is being (mis)used for the control of the people and the financial gain of corporations. The first step was to eliminate privacy and being able to monitor the habits of the people. This process is pretty much completed at this point. The next step was to manipulate people's decision making processes and steer them in the desired direction. As we can plainly see, this process has been highly successful. The third process is to force people into relying on technology to make decisions for them. Obviously this has been very successful.
As for the need for war, you have been around long enough to know how well the economy responds to war.
Robert, I'd like to think that some things are smartening up. For example, whenever I say certain things to youngsters, they don't waste any time pecking away at their phones to either validate what I just said and/or to pick and peck it to pieces. Either way, it forces me to be on the up-and-up, which is truly the only way to be.
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 1:51am
Right, Bill. But it depends on whose economy, doesn't it? The U.S. has been very fortunate since the Civil War, that none of our wars has been on our turf until 9/11 and a few terrorist attacks after that. Ask the families of those who died in those larger wars, though, how good they were for their economy?
If we look at the Vietnam War, for example, we lost 58,000 soldiers. If we check whatever economic boom any war, including WWII, has stimulated in the U.S., would we consider that difference worth 58,000 lives? How much is a life worth? The oligarchs at the top of the arms industry don't care, though. We're just grist for their mill.
And if you take a balanced view instead of a narcissistic, only-the-U.S.-matters view, it's much worse, of course. Since when are massive costs for either side to wreak massive economic damage on the other an economic gain in the aggregate?
Most of our populations on every side are mere pawns in these wars. The motivations for these wars are never what the government claims them to be. If they told the soldiers the truth, we wouldn't even be able to wage war.
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 2, 2018 - 5:43am
The motivations for these wars are never what the government claims them to be
NOTHING the government claims is reliable. Hasn't been for decades.
I'm hoping my new line of portable all stainless steel guillotines finds acceptance in the marketplace. 
Autumn Cote Added May 2, 2018 - 6:07am
Welcome back!  Please note, the best way to draw more attention to your work is to comment on the work of others.  It's also the surest way to entice me to publicize your work to our email distribution list.  The act usually serves to attract a lot more readers and commenters.  
Stone-Eater Added May 2, 2018 - 7:00am
Nice to see you again ! These 1% are no more than a world-spanning network of ruthless business criminals using religion and ideologies to delude the masses while their only motivation is money and power. And they do that remarkably well.
George N Romey Added May 2, 2018 - 8:02am
Robert nice seeing articles from you again and being the voice of reason. While some are waking up to the criminal element that controls our government and murders globally there are still too many sheep. As long as we continue to support the Russian/Iran war mongers and memes the .01% will continue the war machine to enrich themselves.
Dino Manalis Added May 2, 2018 - 8:34am
The deep state is as deep as the ocean, it's wishful thinking to say we'll get rid of it, in fact, many of us are linked to it directly or indirectly.  The deep state is part of our society and economy.  We should focus on specific problems and issues, not stupid metaphors and symbols, like the deep state.
Stone-Eater Added May 2, 2018 - 8:54am
Russian/Iran war mongers ? What about the US and Israel ?
Doug Plumb Added May 2, 2018 - 10:25am
Until people round out their knowledge base that includes critical areas of law, philosophy and theology, they aren't going to be able to understand that the endgame here is a smaller population governed by Talmudic law. Noahide has already been given honorable mention in congress and in parliaments. Understanding the endgame is impossible for someone looking at the world through holocaust goggles.
This world revolution is not about economy or technology, its about these rulers having absolute rule.
Who is the driving force behind multiculturalism ? Why? Answer those two questions and you are on your way.
This cannot be understood from a merely economic perspective, that is Marxist thinking at its core.
Even A Broken Clock Added May 2, 2018 - 10:40am
Robert, welcome back. I hadn't seen any of your posts since I came in about a year ago myself. Don't be so long between posts.
Stone- I believe George was referring to those in the US who are agitating for Russia / Iran war, instead of calling the Russians and Iranians war mongers.
Dave Volek Added May 2, 2018 - 11:12am
Nice essay. I'm not so sure young people are smartening up because of technology. To me, a sign of smartening up would be recognizing the current political structures are failing, and it's time to consider alternatives, and WORK FOR one of those alternatives. Rather, today's youth still buy into the current political process as a means to make societal decisions. For example, the November election in the USA will likely see a shift in power from R to D. Those who are on the D side will be claiming the world is now in better hands. But you and I know differently.
Having said that, it is interesting that despite all the soap operas provided for by politics, the world is indeed moving forward in many ways. Your example of how electric vehicles are becoming more popular--despite all the cavilings of the political right--is quite reassuring.
But it is still time to change the system.
Welcome back!
Bill H. Added May 2, 2018 - 11:34am
There is certainly something behind the Trump/Russia ties. I have a good idea that it has something to do with at least money laundering and investments, but also could go as far as being part of a long-term effort to complete the "We will bury you" promise we were given back in 1956. There are simply just too many players being found to have ties or contacts with Russia (not to mention Trump's wives) to suspect otherwise.
From what we are seeing, Russia actually has the upper hand in utilization of technology to manipulate the masses in similar ways that corporations use it to maneuver their customers and sell their products. They certainly have mastered the use of social media and misleading "news" articles. We have all been led to believe that the Russians are behind the US when it comes to military hardware, but their recent gains in Russian battlefield robotics may soon put us way behind in this field. I spent some years working with ECM systems designed to mimic and thwart Russian ground to air and air to air RADAR systems back in the late '80s and was surprised even then at how quickly the Russians were able to counter our efforts in the area.
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 12:34pm
Dave V., I mean smarter youth in the sense of being used to "otherness" and their recognition of the absurdity of white nationalism or just tribalism in general. I certainly wasn't referring to youth being smarter about technology. Who was it, Heinlein or maybe Asimov, who said magic is the projection of ignorance?
If you're a pygmy in the jungle and never saw a magnet, anyone who shows you what one does with old rusty nails would be a wizard in your eyes. But for 99+% of our current population, including all the youth who are experts at using it, it's magic. They don't understand how any of it works any more than you as a pygmy would understand a magnet.
This is true, though, except for one simple thing. The quote from the science fiction writer leaves out the other half of the issue. We don't consider it magic if it's commonplace; if we're used to it. Ignorance of how it works has nothing to do with that.
So even if we're ignorant of how it works, if we're used to it we still don't see it as magic. It has to be both new and amazing while we have no clue how it works. Then it's magic for us.
But being used to it implies no understanding of it at all. That is where 99+% of us live. We elect equally ignorant people who in that sense do represent us. Yes, they represent us in that sense even if they pay no attention to us in any other sense. They don't work for us; that's for sure.
But we live in an age where everything we do is dependent on advanced science and technology. The pace of discovery in these areas is accelerating rapidly. This is dangerous for society. We have elected politicians who don't represent our interests, but do represent our ignorance of technology. Worse, they are charged with making major decisions about it.
When a society's technology advances way beyond the political intelligence and will to understand it, that society eventually destroys itself. That's why I don't fear non-terrestrial aliens. Considering the vastness and non-unique character of the rest of the cosmos, I assume they must exist.
If they can get here, they are very wise. Otherwise, they could not have developed such advanced science and technology without having already destroyed themselves. The typical fear of extraterrestrial invasions in those who ever even consider it comes from our own past.
Europeans entering the Americas in the early days of the invasion were aliens with advanced technology that wasn't sufficiently developed to completely destroy themselves. They sure indulged in massive destruction of each other and those they invaded. But it wasn't enough to eliminate themselves.
Given our history, we naturally tend to assume that aliens who have technology advanced enough for interstellar travel would do the same. However, for the reasons above, I don't think that's at all the case.
MEFOBILLS Added May 2, 2018 - 1:03pm
Kathrine Austin Fitts on Greg Hunter;s show explaining the tremendous amount of ignorance among American's - especially on economic matters:
Russia is actually reducing their military budget so they can concentrate on improving the welfare of their middle class.
With regards to social media in-roads, it has already been shown that Facebook was selling social data, especially to Cambridge Analytica.  The Russian collusion narrative has already fallen apart, especially with the House Intelligence committee saying they have found no evidence.  Conspirators often accuse others of what they themselves are doing.
Russia doesn't have a MIC, they have design bureaus.  These bureaus work for the government, not the other way around as in MIC.  This is why Russia can field weapons for 1/10 of the price as America .  
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 1:20pm
You'll find out soon, Mefobill. The House Intelligence Committee report is a farce totally obvious to anyone with an ounce of objectivity. This is not a matter of opinion...no "alternative facts".
Trump supporters only pay attention to highly filtered "news" that apes the ex-Soviet propaganda expertise that feeds its clueless consumers. So they don't even see what Trump actually says. Their favorite media outlets don't even report anything negative about Trump without spinning the living stuff out of it first and providing it all kinds of false context if they even bother to air it at all. Most of the time they don't. The rest of us get to see him spew his nuttiness straight from his own mouth.
Mueller is closing in and it won't be long unless the subpoena issue goes to the courts and languishes all the way to the Supreme Court. That's not a bad strategy for Trump, since it puts off how soon his goose gets cooked. But it's going to get cooked.
Mark my words. When all of this is said and done, those of you enamored of "alternative facts" will probably refuse to admit you ever took your current positions on all this. After all, that would be just one more "alternative fact", right?
MEFOBILLS Added May 2, 2018 - 1:26pm
There are brave souls who are risking their lives to expose the Shadow Government.  These Shadow Government types are in an attempted coup against the elected government.  Most of this Trump collusion narrative is made up.
This information is coming out, just not in your echo chamber.
Here is some reality for you and the other posters here:
shadow government
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 1:49pm
As my article above clearly states. you have the "deep state" idea reversed. There is indeed a deep state. It's the super rich, the oligarchy that actually runs our government. They're the ones feeding you the equestrian fecal matter you obviously swallow whole. I have a bunch of close relatives who do the same. It's the most maddening self-delusion of people who believe what they want to believe at any cost. No real truth seeking allowed.
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 2, 2018 - 2:02pm
It's the most maddening self-delusion of people who believe what they want to believe at any cost
I have found that is true because that cost is less than the cost of having their whole world rocked. Of having to accept that everything they've believed is a lie. Its too much. 
MEFOBILLS Added May 2, 2018 - 2:36pm
Trump has deep state terrified:
Shipp a former CIA officer, at risk to his life, has described the shadow government in the link I gave earlier.
In this link Shipp goes on to further describe the battle between players.  
So, I'm not "reversing" any idea of the deep state, I'm using Shipp's very precise definitions.  Further, the deep state is delineated into two parts, which includes the Shadow Government.
I'm suggesting that everybody update themselves.   Jeffry Gilbert is correct, some people cannot confront the lies they have been fed since birth, it is too much for them.  
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 4:24pm
Exactly, Jeffrey! There is a simple test you can use to dumbfound them, except they won't be dumbfounded at all, because reality checks are not even in their practical vocabulary. Here it is:
How do we know the moon landings were not faked with special effects as some believe?
I wasn't there in Cape Kennedy when they launched. The people there I saw on TV could have been paid like movie extras. Nothing that I saw at home on my TV could not have been faked in Hollywood. The technology to do that is there and much simpler than the real thing.
So how do I know the moon landings were not faked? Is there any practical understanding of how the world works that can help me know? If we can get these Trump supporters to answer that (don't bet on it), then we can ask how they can apply that to what they believe about Trump and related political issues.
You can win "bigly" if you bet that they won't. You also win if you bet that they couldn't even in the unlikely event that they ever tried. They have no justification for what they believe except what's in the echo chamber they project onto us.
But these people don't vet information. They're not interested in truth. They're only interested in justifying their fears and prejudices and everything they've already been taught to believe. Their sources are full of cherry-picked, context-free truth to create a certain veneer of credibility.
They then expand this with heavily spun half-truths and outright lies. They send you links to people who happily make a mint selling them their own equestrian excrement. Most of the latter don't really believe themselves.
All anyone with any feeling at all for human behavior and emotion has to do is hear Trump talk, follow his tweets, listen to his vengeful rants. It's then impossible for anyone with half a grain and a little objectivity to deny that the guy is barely literate, has no clue about anything very deep and even less interest, and is essentially the fecal orifice on the back end of a donkey.
Doug Plumb Added May 2, 2018 - 4:24pm
I've watched Shipp, I like Catherine Austin Fitts better. Shipp seems very credible to me.
Mike Haluska Added May 2, 2018 - 4:31pm
Robert -
Been a while, great to see you back.  This was one of your best articles yet.  It remains to be seen what impact President Trump will have on the "Deep State", but I am optimistic.  The source of my optimism stems from the fact that BOTH political establishments have been at his throat since the beginning of the Republican Primary. 
Remember when the Republican establishment was certain he couldn't win, but were afraid he would run as an Independent and pull voters away?  Every candidate signed a "promissory note" to support whomever the Republican nominee turned out to be.  Of course when the "unthinkable" happened, almost every candidate broke the pledge!!!  Republican establishment hypocrisy on full display.
Then we get into the General Election.  Remember when the rigged Democrat winner denounced candidate Trump for "not accepting the results of an election".  RINO's, Dem's, mainstream media - all CERTAIN that Trump had NO CHANCE of beating Hillary - relentlessly piled on Trump.  Of course, the "unthinkable" happened AGAIN and lo and behold, WHO CAN'T ACCEPT THE RESULTS???
What I gather from seeing this "once in a lifetime" hatred by BOTH party establishments is that President Trump is a real threat to the "Deep State".  I honestly believe that both establishment Blue & Red "Deep State" agents will be wearing ORANGE jump suits in a few more months!  This will clear the way for an Article 5 Convention of States to really reform the Federal Government and get back to a Constitutional Republic.
If you're interested in signing the Convention of States petition, please go to:
Here is a short video explaining the Convention of States:
A. Jones Added May 2, 2018 - 5:54pm
The arms industry makes from 10 to 100 times more profit during war than they do during times of peace. Hmmm…wonder how naïve some of our readers here are?...how many here fail to understand that these politically powerful people perpetually lobby for war? And do you imagine they give a tinker's damn about anyone else's young kids going to war to be maimed for life or die?
The Merchants of Death (1934)
Free, downloadable PDF of a classic book on the arms industry.
From the online review at the Mises.org site:
"Here is the archetype of all post–World War I revisionism of a particular variety: the hunt for the people who made the big bucks off the killing machine. The Merchants of Death was, in many ways, the manifesto of a generation of people who swore there would not be and could not be another such war.
But here is the kicker: it was co-authored by the founder of Human Events, the conservative weekly. So this is no left-wing screed against profiteering. It is a careful and subtle, but still passionate, attack on those who would use government to profit themselves at the expense of other people's lives and property.
Here is a sample of the ideological orientation: 'The arms industry did not create the war system. On the contrary, the war system created the arms industry.… All constitutions in the world vest the war-making power in the government or in the representatives of the people. The root of the trouble, therefore, goes far deeper than the arms industry. It lies in the prevailing temper of peoples toward nationalism, militarism, and war, in the civilization which forms this temper and prevents any drastic and radical change. Only when this underlying basis of the war system is altered, will war and its concomitant, the arms industry, pass out of existence.'
This book is a wonderful example of what Rothbard called the 'Old Right' in its best form. The book not only makes the case against the war machine; it provides a scintillating history of war profiteering, one authoritative enough for citation and academic study. One can see how this book had such a powerful effect."
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 10:14pm
Good stuff, A. Jones. There are lots of Joneses, as I'm sure you've noticed more than most if you're really a Jones. So I guess that makes you a Jones among many, or is that A. Jones among many?
Yes, both Dems and Repubs suck big time. Hillary is just another pawn of the "Deep State" or shadow government. It is also true, as A. Jones indicates, that we the people are responsible for the corruption we've allowed in our government. We're too full of non-thinkers who just shop for ideas that suit their psychological needs with no real interest in vetting information or finding any truth beyond what suits their often unconscious preferences.
There is, however, in my opinion, a substantial difference between Dems and Repubs that favor Dems. I'm not talking about Clinton or any specific Democratic politician. We've created, along with lots of help from those who manipulate public opinion for their own gain in terms of both excessive power and money, a plutocracy run by a Deep State about which most U.S. citizens are truly clueless.
The Repubs are far guiltier of using disinformation and spin to serve the interests of our true rulers in the Deep State. They serve the oligarchy, the super rich at the expense of the rest of us. Trickle-down economics has never worked and never will.
The Repubs do this right in your face. Trump blatantly exploits the same fears, prejudices, and the false patriotism that is really tribalism. Repubs have been exploiting this for decades in favor of keeping their gullible audience easy prey for the super rich. Red scare is still around, alive and kicking.
The truth is simple. The oligarchs have kept all the productivity gains of modern technology for themselves. They don't even understand the technology, but profit from their techie servants' knowledge while exploiting them and everyone else. They financed it's development, so they're keeping all the benefits for themselves and paying their victims of their sucker bait as little as possible.
The result? They've created a large population of dependents who they blame for all our woes and easily sucker many of their gullible sheeple into hating them more than they already did. However, this creates a long term, government dependent underclass we will either have to tolerate as useless drones or worse, criminals.
Then we're forced to send them to the concentration camps we now call jails. Either way, we end up with the bill while the super rich laugh all the way to the bank. That is, they until the pitch forks and guillotines start showing up.
They believe they deserve their advantages for no better reason than being born into great wealth. Very few of the super rich got it themselves. They were mostly born into it. They believe in the modern equivalent of the divine right of kings. They are much less compassionate toward those outside their own socioeconomic class than those rare folks who went from rags to riches.
Trump is a would-be oligarch. He hates them, but he was born into wealth himself. He just got it from his very corrupt, thieving, likewise racist forebears. He could have taken his father's money and put it into a mediocre mutual fund and built more wealth than he currently has.
This is despite his laundering tons of Russian mafia money with real estate deals after the banks shut him out. That was because of his dismal business failures and consequent bankruptcies. This put the those who installed the alabaster and marble in his casinos and out of business.
Do you think Trump really gives a flying purple fig about that? He's just like the oligarchs he's always tried to ingratiate, but failed because he's an ignorant, tacky, socially gauche know-nothing who can barely read. Never mind that he can't help but act like the total anal orifice that he is.
By the way, if you're going to default on your loans, make sure it's a huge amount. It gives you all kinds of negotiating leverage when the banks come after you. But don't expect them to sucker for that again.
That's why Trump had to turn to the corrupt Russian oligarchs. He's as corrupt as they are. His celebrity counts only for those stupid enough to worship celebrities simply because they're celebrities. It's like the fake professional wrestling he was so good at promoting. His supporters mistake reality show fiction for reality. He's not even close to a successful businessman.
He's disrupting the system all right, but not in any productive way. If we want to have any semblance of a democratic republic in the future, we need to get rid of this ignoramus ASAP. He knows so little about the U.S. government, the separation of powers, and just the simplest hig
Robert Wendell Added May 2, 2018 - 10:15pm
high school civics, that he asked why he couldn't get "his guys" in the DOJ and FBI to what he wants.
Some of you probably never saw him say this because you look exclusively at heavily filtered and viciously spun right-wing disinformation and actually believe that sewage. Or you read only the stuff Mefobill provides links to and swallow that whole without looking widely enough to vet any of it. Go, Mueller, go!
I will never grow tired of quoting Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, and TWO-TIME Medal of Honor recipient:
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 3, 2018 - 3:16am
Major General Smedley Butler, USMC
Now there was a man in full.
A. Jones Added May 3, 2018 - 5:12am
The Repubs are far guiltier of using disinformation and spin to serve the interests of our true rulers in the Deep State. They serve the oligarchy, the super rich at the expense of the rest of us.
A neat hypothesis punctured by an inconvenient fact: most of the super-rich, 1% elite in the U.S. are Democrats, not Republicans.
Trump himself was a Democrat for most of his life. He switched to the Republican Party sometime in 2001 (not sure why, and not sure if it was before or after 9/11).
Former NYC mayor, Michael Bloomberg, was also a Democrat for most of his life. He switched to the Republican Party purely out of pragmatism for the sake of getting on the ballot.
Bill Gates is a Democrat, as was Steve Jobs. So is Warren Buffett.
Trickle-down economics has never worked and never will.
I agree. Thank goodness no one (certainly no Republican) has ever advocated it. No economist has ever advocated something called "trickle down" economics, either. Even the phrase, "trickle-down economics" is a figment of the progressive left's imagination.
Doug Plumb Added May 3, 2018 - 5:43am
re "All anyone with any feeling at all for human behavior and emotion has to do is hear Trump talk, follow his tweets, listen to his vengeful rants. It's then impossible for anyone with half a grain and a little objectivity to deny that the guy is barely literate, has no clue about anything very deep and even less interest, and is essentially the fecal orifice on the back end of a donkey."
I wonder about that myself. I had the same thoughts on GW. I think maybe these guys just aren't very good at dumbing it all down. If you are stupid, you don't study linguistics at Yale (GW), you study geography or feminist theory.
I don't see how there could be much room for idiots at the top and some of these politicians come off that way. The idea counters common sense and I have never known what to think in that regard.
Doug Plumb Added May 3, 2018 - 5:48am
Jordan Peterson said he thought Trump was very smart. I don't totally trust Peterson, but he is a mental scientist, a good one, and has a lot of practical intelligence.
Doug Plumb Added May 3, 2018 - 5:50am
I watched the movie Crime and Punishment (Dosteovsky) - very good movie about the elite thinking process and redemption. I watched the BBC version.
Shining One Added May 3, 2018 - 10:51am
The deep state comprises of more than just the military industrial complex. A quick net search of who the companies are that supply it.
When you look into who the major shareholders are of these companies are you find what you would expect. Major banks and investment management corporations controlling assets of trillions. 
e.g.   http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=NOC
When you look into the major shareholders of these groups you quickly find that they remain anonymous. In other words the groups who publicly say they are transparent, do not publish who owns them.
e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vanguard_Group
This is how the true evil elite that devastate this planet with wars remain hidden.
Stone-Eater Added May 3, 2018 - 11:05am
Thanks for the tip. Downloading it.
Stone-Eater Added May 3, 2018 - 11:08am
Hm...BlackRock is bigger, and guess where its CEO, Fink, comes from......
Sam Nowaczynski Added May 3, 2018 - 11:11am
Name one thing the right has done that’s an indication of their “heinously immoral behavior.” 
A bit of advice, if you wish to have an fruitful discussion you need to provide arguments as to why we should agree with you.  In those arguments should be facts and quotes which justify your conclusions.  Furthermore, if you treat your adversaries with respect, you’ll be treated with respect.  Until then all I see is a heinously nasty old man whose clearly been drinking too much liberal kool-aid. 
Katharine Otto Added May 3, 2018 - 11:36am
Interesting article, but I hesitate to ascribe motives to other people or organizations.  Your generalizations gloss over the fact that lots of people and organizations get their heels dug into a particular mind-set and refuse to acknowledge anything that refutes it.
People don't like to believe they are being played for fools, so their resistance makes them even easier to manipulate.  Michael B.'s quote from Major General Smedley Butler, above, supports my belief, too, that Wall Street is in charge, but the oligarchs are not investing in Wall Street as much as the average American with benefits and pension plans, 401k or IRA, with money controlled by fund managers looking for the best returns.  Never mind that the government socially engineers this gravy train to Wall Street by tax-deferred contributions or tax-write offs for the corporations that provide pensions and benefits for their employees.  Which corporations pay the highest dividends?  Well, your defense contractors probably do, but it's the American public that buys their stocks.  
Trump has succeeded because he knows how to work a corrupt system to advantage.  He's gotten away with it so far because the entire country has been compromised by stock investments and government jobs.  No one, even the critics, can afford to let the system collapse.
Mike Haluska Added May 3, 2018 - 11:51am
Robert -
Some day you need to grow up and stop acting like anyone who invented something or built a business is "greedy" and owes you something.  Your "reverse cause-effect mixed with a confusion with correlation" has done a number on your mental processes.
The Deep State was in place long before President Trump took office.  The fact that he is driving them batsh&t crazy means he is doing things they DON'T LIKE and feel threatened - that's a GOOD THING!!!
Autumn Cote Added May 3, 2018 - 2:15pm
Please note, it’s against the rules to post articles here bless you comment on the work of others.
Stone-Eater Added May 3, 2018 - 4:01pm
Can't paste from clipboard on Android  Unnerving ! Would be a fantastic article. URL too long to write. Autumn please correct ...
A. Jones Added May 3, 2018 - 5:20pm
I watched the movie Crime and Punishment (Dosteovsky)
You might try reading the book sometime.
George N Romey Added May 3, 2018 - 6:58pm
Katharine you are correct. The system might be dysfunctional and corrupt but too many are invested into it so the system thrives. 
Robert Wendell Added May 3, 2018 - 10:55pm
A. Jones, I said 0.01%; NOT 1%. Further, it doesn't matter. That has nothing to do with their overweening influence over our political process. Your "inconvenient fact" is more a matter of social convenience and PR than anything else.
So the point is not just weak; it's completely irrelevant. There are a few thousand inconvenient facts right at the top of the list of importance for the good of our country that you get completely wrong. Sad!
You swallow whole whatever information suits your personal tastes, preferences, your psychological needs to justify your cherished, but absurdly distorted world view. None of that has anything to do with facts. You think everyone does the same, but not quite. However, and even more sadly, you're far to correct in that assumption for the good of our country.
A. Jones Added May 3, 2018 - 11:13pm
Your "inconvenient fact" is more a matter of social convenience and PR than anything else.
Nice try at misdirection. But no cigar.
FACT: In the U.S., the majority of the "elite" (at whatever place you wish to insert the decimal point: 1%, ) are members of the Democratic Party, not the Republican Party.
A. Jones Added May 3, 2018 - 11:14pm
You swallow whole whatever information suits your personal tastes, preferences, your psychological needs to justify your cherished, but absurdly distorted world view.
Go into a closet and practice circular-breathing on your flute. You're an ignoramus, Wendell.
Robert Wendell Added May 3, 2018 - 11:26pm
"A bit of advice, if you wish to have an fruitful discussion you need to provide arguments as to why we should agree with you."
- Sam N.
Uh, try watching actual news instead of the fake news that tries to call anything that disagrees with it fake news. Trump just called himself a liar; said he knew nothing about the porn star hush money a couple of weeks ago. Now he tweets the opposite and that he ended up paying Cohen back for it.
Real news actually broadcasts him doing these cosmically dumb things. Those of us who actually take the obvious into account get to see him defecate with his mouth all the time. So we don't have to take the word of what you imagine to be "left-wing", biased news.
They just show the guy talking. I shouldn't have to point that out or cite anything. Just open your eyes and ears and look around a bit. Either the stuff you watch leaves all that out or your mental fact filter completely eliminates it.
The guy who pretends to be our president calls himself a liar by habitually reversing his "facts", sometimes almost in the same breath. He's a pathological liar. His closest associates ("friends") say he believes everything he says while he's saying it. Loose marbles loved by his loose-marbled worshipers.
Robert Wendell Added May 3, 2018 - 11:34pm
"The Deep State was in place long before President Trump took office." - Haluska
Right you are. I've said nothing different. Trump is upsetting the whole apple cart. In a way, that is a good thing. It's waking up a lot of naïve people on what you call the left to what's really wrong with this country, and that's us.
Too many of us, you for example, let the Deep State, the real one, hoodwink you into blaming the very enemies of the Deep State. Trump comes along and suckers you all and the Russians gleefully step in and amplify his game. They don't consider him an asset, though.
Trumps just a useful fool for them as you and others here are for the Deep State. The real Deep State is not constituted of the rich, but the super-rich. Most of them never worked a day in their lives unless you count donating money to dark political games implemented by their pawns in government.
George N Romey Added May 4, 2018 - 7:49am
The .01% is apolitical in the sense they will buy anyone in both parties that will ensure their desires and wants are being met.
Mike Haluska Added May 4, 2018 - 11:49am
Robert -
I personally know several wealthy people.  Because of their wealth and position, they are in constant threat of extortion, baseless scandal law suits, etc.  These people are not like you and I in the respect of how they handle their money.  First of all, people like President Trump don't sit down at the kitchen table once a month like we do and get the check book out to pay the utility bill, mortgage, credit card, etc.  They hire accountants and attorneys who have legal authority to act in their interest (called Power of Attorney).
I am absolutely certain that then candidate Trump knew anything about his attorney paying the stripper and never saw an invoice for reimbursement.  If you were wealthy and in the public eye you would handle this crap the same way.  I am also absolutely certain that if Trump wasn't running for office at the time he would have sued the stripper and her idiot attorney for violating the Non Disclosure Agreement.  
This is why the Founding Fathers put it in the Constitution that the President is protected from this crap while in office.  As much as I opposed President Obama I would offer him the same courtesy and privilege.  If charges are legit they can pursue him once he's out of office.  In the meantime, we should be focused on de-nuclearizing North Korea, keeping Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, job creation, record low unemployment, fixing immigration . . . real problems that affect all of us.
Mike Haluska Added May 4, 2018 - 12:04pm
Robert - one more point about the "Deep State".  I understand your basic mistrust of powerful mega-wealthy people.  What I don't understand is your indifference towards the people in government who we PAY to act in our best interest while they collude with foreign governments while drawing up trade agreements and then resign to go to work at million dollar salaries at the foreign government trade associations???
After all, no matter how awful the greedy capitalist pigs may be, they need crooks in the government to cheat on a grand scale.
Robert Wendell Added May 4, 2018 - 12:09pm
The guy's a flat-out criminal who doesn't have a high school civics grasp of the separation of powers or the U.S. Constitution, Haluska. His "crap" should put him behind bars. No one is above the law, ESPECIALLY the president of the United States of America.
That's the last place that should harbor criminals. Bush was a criminal, too. He can't go outside the country without getting taken to the Hague and tried as a war criminal, despite that to you and your twisted view this likely means nothing except that European socialists don't like him. Nixon was even worse. And there were a few others, like Trump's "hero" Jackson.
Never mind that Trump had no idea in what era Jackson became president. But none of them compare to this clown, this clueless, narcissistic, sick, sick animal. His "intelligence" doesn't exist outside of his uncanny ability to manipulate people like. Yes, he's very good at that. He had a lot of practice when he was promoting commercial wrestling. That also requires expertise in exploiting tribalism, racism, and abject ignorance.
Robert Wendell Added May 4, 2018 - 12:14pm
By the way, I've also known and worked for millionaires and one billionaire. They're not in a class with the super rich who run our government from behind the curtain.
MEFOBILLS Added May 4, 2018 - 12:49pm
You continue with your narrative despite the contrary evidence:
You state that it is super rich oligarchs as main vector.  Yes, in some cases that is true, but like everything it is more complex:
I gave you the link to Shipps very clear definitions of exactly WHO the deep state actors are.  There is no argument against his definitions.  Yet, you continue.  
The deep state are players who have found common cause.  They are extraction industry (oil primarily), finance capitalism (wall street/london), MIC, and AIPAC.
Petrodollars and finance are closely related to dollar as reserve currency, especially after the 1973 Kissinger-Saudi agreement.  
The Shadow government (post JFK) has wrested some control from Deep State by using Torture and Secrecy. In other words, deep state Oligarchs and monopoly industry - including the MIC are subordinated to Shadow Government. 
The Template for this structure began with Bank of England in 1694, which then put England into debts.  The East Indies company soon had their mercenary army taken over by the state.  East Indies company also became the model for MI5.   MI5 in turn became the model for CIA after WW2.  Finance methods (debt spreading private banking) from BOE model jumped to the U.S. in 1913 with advent of Federal Reserve.   
Since JFK's assassination the shadow government has grown bolder as it controlled presidents, and since Clinton's telecommunication act of 95 or so, the press has consolidated into a monolith of cross directorate companies, all of whom respond to Cabala masters.  
The deep state is mostly about greed, perversion and unlawfulness - to then continue the greed.  The shadow government uses secrecy and torture to control the deep state.  
Trump was only peripheral to the deep state as he made his money on real estate, not in extraction industries or finance.  Trump also found bankers (finance/wall street) as his adversaries and gloated when they made debt release concessions.   
The current coup attempt on Trump is an attempt by the Shadow Government to maintain its pyramid control.  Civilian control by an elected government is not to be allowed.  
The players who are countering this Coup are elements within the Air Force and NSA and some other military branches.  These groups remember their oath, to fight "domestic enemies."  Trump has surrounded himself with a private security detail that he pays, so he won't get "suicided."  
I suggest you revisit the links I provided earlier, and start to think outside of your narrow box.
Stone-Eater Added May 4, 2018 - 1:32pm
Civilian control by an elected government is not to be allowed.  
It nowhere is for the obvious reasons. The network makes sure of it, no matter who exactly it is. In my view, it's a mix of the MIC, the World Bank, BIS, the IMF, the UN with it's "Security Council", Wall Street (BlackRock and the like), in short: The economy. Without economy, none of the former can exist. And seen the personnel in these influential gremiums, AIPAC surely has a hand in it...
Politicians are a mere deflection for the people. Stage puppets (c) by mainly Goldman-Sachs and the like and the so-called "elite" universities. As I said the network.
Mike Haluska Added May 4, 2018 - 1:41pm
If you ask Wendell for one specific thing that President Trump has done that has impacted him personally in any significant manner, you'll get a rant about his "lying, wealth, personality, etc.  When I ask about the cries of "having our rights taken away", he can't think of one single thing he can't do today that he could before President Trump was elected.
Unemployment is approaching all-time lows, manufacturing is booming, welfare participation is shrinking, tax revenues are at an all-time HIGH due to increased economic activity from tax cuts, North Korea is caving, immigration is finally being dealt with, ordinary employees are getting over $1,000 bonuses . . . stuff like that is what matters. 
President Trump's popularity is steadily climbing even though there is a daily onslaught against him by the media, Democrats and RINO's.
Wendell just hates President Trump - and enjoys the hell out of it.
Stone-Eater Added May 4, 2018 - 2:34pm
Time will tell. Bush and Obama were war presidents. Trump not yet. That's what counts for the world. I guess Trump has not the power to stop the MIC, otherwise he would not have had attacked Syria base or threatened North Korea. He was once against the Iraq war.
It's not HIM who decides foreign policy. He might decide US interna, fair enough what he does (if it's genuine), but foreign policy is decided by the Pentagon, and people like Pompeo or Bolton are set in place either by pressure on Trump or by the more dangerous fact that he believes everything that people tell him.
If latter is the case, he should be a Senator, but not president.
Stone-Eater Added May 4, 2018 - 2:39pm
BTW: I'm 100% sure that Wesley Clark was right. The agenda is Iran next. No matter what they do or say, they are geographically a puzzle stone in the ring around Russia. Russia is the goal, it ever was and will ever be. That's why after Iran, China will be next, and then, the ring around Russia will be closed. NK is a corner stone, because it has borders with China and Russia. And SK is already a US "ally".
Putin knows that ever since. That's why we have that mess in the ME.
People should more frequently look at a world map.
MEFOBILLS Added May 4, 2018 - 5:24pm
Atlantacism is a doctrine that is tied closely to finance capitalism.  This world illuminist system is breaking down.  It uses RIM theory and debt methods for full spectrum dominance.  Atlantacism is borne from shipping on the Atlantic, and even bills of lading may be hypothecate into "bank credit" as money.  Atlantacism  and Mercantilism was teh world economic system as it emanated from London.  Rim theory is the controlling of ocean land "rims"  that is, where the ocean touches land.  By controlling the rim, you control the interior.
China's belt and road initiative is "land power" which is the opposite of Atlantacism.  Further, China uses State Banks and has an economy based more on production than on finance maneuvering.  Russia is also a land power, and defensively postured.  They do not power project with aircraft carriers.  
So, Atlantacism, financial capitalism, and divide and conquer strategies of the "west" are under perceived attack by a land power/production economies. Finance Oligarchs and usurers of the west are going bezerk because 1) people are seeing through their narrative, and 2) because their rent schemes are being thwarted.
  Their owned corporate press organs are emanating hypnosis and propaganda, along with false flags, at a high rate.   This then keeps western populations duped and under fear control; witness things like the never ending ill-defined "war on terror."
China rope a doped the West, using its Eastern coast to have ships come in with raw materials, then leave with finished goods.  Meantime, China built up her interior with road, rail and airports - making it more land power.  Eventually the rim  China's (east coast) will lose significance as goods are moved efficiently over land.  Land in turn is easily defended using S-400 and area denial strategies.  
Our ((masters)) are not as smart as they think they are, and there is no way to get out of the box they are in now.  The U.S. must join China and Russia and become a "productive" economy again.  The rent seekers have built up their ways of extraction over centuries, but the parasites will be ejected, or they will take us to war.
MEFOBILLS Added May 4, 2018 - 5:34pm
With regards to Iran, look at a map.  It is strategically placed, and further is an ancient civilization (Persia) made up of smart people.  
The Deep State/Shadow Government is aiming its daggers at Iran, no doubt.
Here is some more on that:
Auntie defense
Stone-Eater Added May 4, 2018 - 6:20pm
About US / NATO hypocrisy and crimes. German. Why ? Because Americans don't have access to such info. Don't ask why....I hope that some of you guys understand German....:-(
Stone-Eater Added May 4, 2018 - 6:21pm
Thanks, I'll check that.
George N Romey Added May 4, 2018 - 6:32pm
Take us to war and that’s what’s scary.
Robert Wendell Added May 4, 2018 - 10:02pm
Mefobill, this link is the antidote of truth for the fake news link you point to regarding the Deep State. It describes an understanding that evolved for me after many years of objective research with a sincere eye to ferreting out truth.
That includes being old enough to be a university sophomore when JFK was assassinated and watching live when Ruby shot Oswald as Walter Conkrite was covering Oswald's prison transfer. (There clearly were truly rotten security precautions...hmmm.) It includes living in other countries, fully absorbed into their culture and speaking their language so fluently that I was often taken for a native speaker.
It includes an intense interest in those cultures and their perspectives on their own and our politics. This and my own longish life here as a U.S. native created many questions, some of which remained unresolved for years until the right piece fleshed out the information already in hand. I have many years of living exposed to and listening carefully to all kinds of perspectives, U.S. and foreign, insane and sensible/objective, I slowly pieced together the truth for myself.
Slowly assembled over decades, my perspective is artfully completely independently described in the link I just provided at the top of this comment. I'm not a blind consumer of what this guy says. I just happened to do a smart Google search this afternoon that pulled up someone who was in a position to see first hand what took me decades to assemble piece by piece.
What a coincidence, huh? Or maybe we converge because we both got it right. Oh, but you can't swallow that pill, can you? That contrasts radically with what you and others here will probably think about how I arrived at my view.
You think I've just read about these perspectives and chose them because they rub my fur the right way. In other words, you think I got it exactly they way you got yours. You likely fail to even understand that there is another way.
But if you think there is, then spell it out. Where did you get your "information"? How did you vet it?...just by watching youtube and reading hard right publications, right wing talk radio, etc. and deciding it made sense to you? Or maybe it fits your cultural background and social environs better? It makes you part of your little in-crowd, your comfortable little tribe?
If not, what else made it make sense to you? Again, spell it out! Do you even realize that an apparently coherent hypothesis about what's going on is not even close to enough? It takes some hard reality checks and a genuine desire for truth instead of what rubs your fur the right way and seems to explain and justify everything YOU already want to believe.
In other words, my views were and are acquired in ways that are the opposite of what you think I'm doing. And you think that only because that's the way you do it. I don't think you even know any other way exists. Oh, you may be able to talk about other ways as if you use them, but you don't really even know how.
MEFOBILLS Added May 4, 2018 - 10:22pm
If your views don't comport to reality, then you have to eject them.
  One of the things I have trouble with is Trump's agitation with Iran.  Also, Trump butt-smoochio's with Jewish and Israeli interests.  But even here, Trump thinks he can gain the upper hand.  
Besides, what makes you think you are older and wiser than I am?  Did it occur to you that it is in the realm of statistical probability that you may run into somebody similar? Yes, I know, statistics may be shocking.
With regards to JFK a lot of information is out now, especially about the Dulles brothers, and of course this murder event was a defining point for Shadow Government coming into being.  Mossad was used as well during this event, and Trump is using Mossad as well now to keep CIA off balance.
So, it is easy to get confused when there are multiple variables in play, and that leads people astray.  The ONE thing that is central variable always is the money system, and on that subject I am well versed.  
So, even though I am troubled by some of Trump's activities, I am not an ideologue who allows himself to be blinded to salient facts.   You will have to find someway to fit facts into your worldview, otherwise you are engaged in intellectual make-believe.   When new data comes into view, then you have to deal with it.
 With regards to my "knowledge" it spans monetary history as far back as I could trace mankind, and we are talking about decades of effort reading many obscure journals, sifting through BS, and trying to piece things together.  There is a common thread to history.  My understanding of history makes me different than most, and you cannot pin me down in some sophomoric way.
Many people are flailing around caught up in a net, and are striking out in their confusion.  
Robert Wendell Added May 4, 2018 - 10:46pm
By the way, you should at this point realize that I know there is a Deep State, but as defined by former Republican aide Mike Lofgren, author of The Deep State: The Fall of the Constitution and the Rise of a Shadow Government according to the article I previously provided a link to. It has nothing to do with the tribalism, white male Christian political cow poop many of you here are promoting. It is exactly on the other side.
The real Deep State is playing all you believers in the Trump "Deep State". They're using him to take your rights away. And that's exactly what you fear everyone trying to take Trump down are trying to do.
Some "christians" believe laws against anti-gay discrimination are a violation of their religious beliefs. How so? I'm straight as they come, but I live and let live. Oh, what an effing liberal, huh? But if, for the sake of argument, I agree that homosexuality is an egregious sin, then I have a very pointed question for you:
Do you believe there are sins worse than homosexuality?
How about Nixon cancelling a peace conference with Ho Chi Minh so he could get reelected, allowing another paltry few thousand more amazing, courageous U.S. youth die to bring the total to 58,000? All that for a war started under false pretenses and that we lost.
So, would you refuse to bake a wedding cake for Nixon because he was a sinner? How about serial liar/adulterer Trump, for that matter?
Oh, that's interesting, huh? If there are greater sins than homosexuality, how many customers of any business are likely to have committed worse sins? Here's an even better question:
Is it a violation of anyone's religion to refuse to sell to sinners? Good luck with that one.
So this is not exactly rocket science, is it, folks? You've got a be a total mental basket case to think it's a violation of anyone's religion to sell goods and/or services to sinners. Yet many of you buy that chunk of equestrian fecal matter, don't you? You buy that kind of logic, absurdly perverted on its face, simply because it fits your need for certified tribal approval? Mmmmm,,,yes?
Robert Wendell Added May 4, 2018 - 11:05pm
Here's a pertinent little definition for you:
i·den·ti·ty pol·i·tics


a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.
If you fit this definition, you're a pawn of the real Deep State. They're no more formally organized than you are. However, they are loosely coordinated and unconstitutionally privy to inside, even classified, information. They do include the intelligence community of the western powers, the international banking system, and the major extraction industries like oil and coal.
Yes!...the very industries Trump is favoring "bigly" with his bassackwards policies. And YOU COSMIC SUCKERS AREN'T EVEN NOTICING!
P.S. Regarding "trickle-down" economics as a liberal fiction, a rose by any other name is a rose. The quasi-religious dogma that that says making it easier for the super rich to get even richer helps everyone by stimulating the economy generally is what this so-called "leftist" term refers to.
If you believe that this is true, then it doesn't matter what anyone calls it. Semantic games prove nothing. The truth? The economic gap is growing because the policies this dogma promotes allow the rich to get richer at everyone else's expense. This doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. It could be win-win.  But the zero-sum mentality of the Deep States effectively makes it so.

MEFOBILLS Added May 5, 2018 - 4:01am
Identity Politics is a function of Frankfurt School Doctrine.  The idea is to divide and conquer.  Oligarchs do that in order to keep the population divided and clueless, so they can take their thefts.  Identity politics doctrine is of the left, not the right side of political circus. Frankfurt school is the main school for cultural communism and Alinsky like doctrine that Hillary and Obama lapped up as youths.  Obama was especially adept at playing the identity politics game.
Usually conservatives are for family values, not identity politics designed to tear families and communities apart.  
It used to be the Republican party was the primary locus for Oligarchy, while Democrats worked for labor and the little guy.  Since Bill Clinton's "new democrats" the democratic party has morphed to become allied with deep state and wall street finance.  
Obama continued the neocon tradition.  There is now little difference between the parties since Bill Clinton.  Clinton, Bush, Obama - they are all neocon politics with neo-liberal economics.   Don't forget that Trump was a democrat until recently.
  Trump does have neo-con's surrounding him, and he does bend over for some neo-liberal economics in the same way as his predecessors.  It appears to be real-politic in order to appease his party, not due to coercion or being a puppet.  Trump is at war with his own party, and democrats, and the shadow government.  In the first weeks after his election, Trump went to the CIA and warned them "no columns" a thinly veiled threat to not do a fifth column -- which they did anyway.    
Trump is favoring some of the Republican business "overlord" class, in the same way that Hillary was favoring similar scums in the Democratic party.  For example, Trump's tax "cuts" favor the rich at the expense of the poor and working labor class.  How is a real-estate magnate going to be well versed in high level economics, especially when his republican party represents "chamber of commerce" types, who also want unlimited third world immigration.  (Is Trump for unfettered immigration?)
There is indeed an internal coup attempt by the Democrat's and their deep state fellow travelers. These deep state actors are tied to wall street finance and corporate bribes.  New deal FDR democrats cannot seem to get their heads around the fact that the democrat party left them a long time ago.  The Clinton pay to play money laundering scheme is becoming unraveled.  
MEFOBILLS Added May 5, 2018 - 4:12am
The economic gap is growing because the policies this dogma promotes allow the rich to get richer at everyone else's expense.
Finance has taken all of the economic overhead since 1974.  This is mostly through rent seeking and various false economic doctrines.  May I remind you that both sides of the political spectrum have been in power since 1974.  
Obama did not jail or prosecute ANY of the finance class for their thefts leading up to the 2008 collapse.   The debts were left in place and paid off at face value; and then there was QE, to then allow the "credit worthy" to borrow cheaply to then buy up distressed property.   Even Warren Buffet became a slum lord, as he bought up distressed property only to turn it into rentals.  
George N Romey Added May 5, 2018 - 9:52am
I agree in this country we’ve moved from an economy based upon production to rent seeking. Should we be surprised at the deterioration of jobs? The .01% rather provide the American Dream based upon income and investment/savings has provided it based upon endless debt. They profit immensely from that debt.
However debt based economies eventually collapse albeit central banks have been unthinkable in the ways they’ve kept this scheme going. But one day it will collapse and some of the .01% know it’s coming. They’ve prepared for the day their paper assets become worthless.
Obama was nothing more than a tool for Wall Street. Like most of the Democratic establishment he was as much as a whore for the .01% as the GOP.
MEFOBILLS Added May 5, 2018 - 10:51am
That's right George, one has to look beyond two party politics and see things for what they are.  Unfortunately, only a few are able to do that.  
There was a study done in Europe where 10,000 women were asked political questions.  They were stunningly ignorant.  The younger ones were especially ignorant. So, it is every easy to manipulate a population, especially by using identity politics.  
You also nailed it with regards to debt instruments.   These "instruments" are regarded as assets.  These instruments are not part of the physical economy of "things" but instead are abstract devices, which make demands on the real economy.  These demands can be canceled, swapped unevenly, made to grow at exponential rates, or converted to a unlike kind.   Babylon money magick depends on the factors I just listed, and our .01% overlords depend on the magick and debtor dupes not understanding their game.  The game is not taught in economic skools on purpose. 
Dupe voters in the democratic party cannot fathom that their "party" leaders are puppets dancing to the tune of their oligarchical masters.   They can only see the Republican Oligarchs, as if their glasses are one-way vision.  
Robert Wendell Added May 5, 2018 - 12:57pm
I agree with a lot of what you've said, Mefobill. However, I strongly disagree with this:
"Identity politics doctrine is of the left, not the right side of political circus."
The hardcore Trump supporters are the most xenophobic, tribal types I've ever witnessed; the worst of the worst. I don't say this because of their position on immigration. It's much deeper and more obvious than any such single position they take.
I see Trump's victory as a combination of racist backlash against Obama. The Russian oligarchy just engineered the final tip over. People here and the media seem to think that Putin was behind all of this, and to some degree they're right, But they also think he runs everything; that he's an absolute dictator.
Not so, and many smart Russians in the know are trying to tell that to the west. There is a hodgepodge of interests in Russia always vying for power. Putin is sitting at the top of that for the last long while. But he's afraid to give up his position because he'll either die in power or lose power and die. He naturally prefers the first option if it is indeed an option for him.
MEFOBILLS Added May 5, 2018 - 1:25pm
I suggest you familiarize yourself with Frankfurt School Cultural Communism.
Identity Politics, the Break-up of families, loose Sexual mores, Feminism - these are all revolutionary mechanisms that are codified in Frankfurt school doctrine.  This is very much a leftist method.
This Paranoia about Putin is also projection from Oligarchs of both Russian ilk and Western. Since the Western press is owned then expect hypnosis to issue forth.  Clinton's telecommunication act of 1996 allowed the media consolidation into cross directorates.  
Putin's original deal with Russian Oligarchs starting in the 90's was that they wouldn't pervert the political compact with Russian people.  The Russian oligarchs crossed the line when the tried to sell national resources to the West, especially Yukos to Rothschild interests.  Russian Oligarchs were to pay their taxes, and stay out of politics - otherwise, they were left alone.  Putin had bigger fish to fry, especially stopping the destruction of Russia and population inversion (people stopped having children).  Many of these Russian Oligarchs fled to London, to avoid taxes.
And yes, approximately 90% of the Russian Oligarchs were/are Jewish, and act with in-group behaviors.  They also find common cause with their American cousins, who are ensconced in Wall Street. 
Trump DOES butt-smoochio with these people, and it may be his undoing.  When you are surrounded by enemies, it is very difficult to navigate.  Trump may not even consider them enemies, and thinks he can control them.  Only the future will tell, but the U.S. is in a very precarious position.
The Hodgepoge of interests in Russia are coming under elected control by way of a power vertical.  This power vertical is civilian elected control, not unelected shadow figures.
 Putin Democracy
This power vertical consists of the Central Government having feedback in the form of "agents" posted in the various Oblasts and Governates of the Federation.  This would be a flat pyramid with mostly local government control.  The U.S. by contrast is more centralized on Washington and Washington in turn is controlled by monied interests.
The Oblasts are something like States in the U.S., but these States can be smaller, even as small as an area like Moscow, or as big as the large Steppe region.  This method means that voting power is leveled. The founding fathers of U.S. leveled voting power through another method, the Electoral College.
Robert Wendell Added May 5, 2018 - 1:28pm
George and Mefobills, you both make some very accurate and important points. I don't disagree with much of what you say.
Robert Wendell Added May 5, 2018 - 2:06pm
I didn't like Hillary at all. She's bought and sold. I think Trump is much worse unless we include his impact as a wake-up call to those of us with a little common sense.
I think we needed him for that. To me he represents the last dying breath of the worst kind of conservatism. I don't go with the kind of liberalism that says anything goes, serial polygamy (multiple marriages), kids flipping off their parents, no respect for anyone. Too many adults treat children as if they were just small adults. They pick up the role and it's a disaster in our schools and everywhere else.
But Trump represents the worst of all of that. He's also feeding at the trough of the power elite. He's ruining the environment, going backwards with everything good.
Conservatives in the stupidest sense like all of that. They still think the earth is so big we little puny humans can't do anything to damage it. Haluska said that to me in a comment about AGW once or twice. Yet more than one country has nukes that could destroy the whole planet several times over and in just a few minutes.
We live on a planet with incredibly high multiples of any world population until just a few generations ago. We have technology that modifies the environment daily in ways that would take centuries and zillions of humans, horses, and oxen to do previously.
To believe we cannot and do not have a significant impact on our environment is nuts. The profit motive is inherently short-sighted. It is completely impotent to guarantee that our mindless, accelerating modification of the environment can have no significant negative impact on it. Ideally, the collective wisdom of the people have to do this through consensual governance. We're not very close to that right now.
MEFOBILLS Added May 5, 2018 - 3:55pm
The profit motive is inherently short-sighted. It is completely impotent to guarantee that our mindless, accelerating modification of the environment can have no significant negative impact on it.
Bulls-eye.  Money and prices now control humanity.  Money comes into existence and channels according to profit motives, not necessarily what is good for the commons. 
(Money actually belongs to the commons, and its true nature is law.)
 "Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talks of the sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile." - William Lyon Mackenzie King
Trump has a chance of rolling back the deep state, but since he is a product of the FIRE sector, he will be unable to see into the real problems.  Fire = finance, insurance, and real-estate.  
70% of debt instruments come into being against FIRE.  Upon debt creation, the bank credit is created as a twin.  In other words, industry and productivity is not funded through bank credit, but instead comes from high prices and company profits.
I would suggest that Trump is the lesser evil than the Hillary gang.   Trump is actually doing some good things, for example the last two executive orders do this:  1) Allows Civilian Lawyers to work concurrent with Military Tribunals - which will prevent civilian courts from being clogged with the upcoming arrests of deep state critters.  2) Pedophiles and their Satanic networks were elevated to national security threat, which allows the military to round them up. 
These sort of things would most certainly not have happened under a Hillary regime, and we would most likely be in WW3 now had she been elected.  So, the glass can be half full or half empty depending on your viewpoint.
George N Romey Added May 5, 2018 - 5:22pm
We’ve squandered trillions trying to maintain economic and military hegemony. Now other countries particularly Russia, China and Iran are fed up with US hegemony. The Deep State is in a pickle over the facade being broken apart. They beat the war drums as a means to corral the masses back into the propaganda fold. Sadly too many Americans actually think Russia or Iran a threat. They are more true to their citizens than our politicians ever will be. They are not the boogeyman but the scapegoats of the Deep State.
George N Romey Added May 5, 2018 - 5:28pm
We’ve squandered trillions on trying to maintain US economic and military hegemony. Other nations are fed up with it particularly Russia, China and Iran. The facade is being destroyed and the Deep State is in a pickle.
So they are beating the war drums to corral the unwashed masses back into the propaganda fold and of course too many Americans still fall for it. Russia and Iran are the boogeymen yet they are more true to their own people than the US.
9-11 was the beginning. A manufactured attack to bring the fear back into Americans and the printing presses have benefited the .01% to a level unthinkable just 20 years ago.
MEFOBILLS Added May 5, 2018 - 6:23pm
Russia is resource rich and can have a production economy of making things.  They are also a land power, and can use area denial techniques to defend her territory.  Rail and Air links to China means the two economies become symbiotic. 
England's Atlantacist Doctrine was codified soon after Jewish insertion beginning around 1600.  The English of those days even considered themselves the "lost tribe."  Add this sort of skull fuckery to creating corporations with rights as people, to then also add in private bank credit, and you end up with a potent brew.  The book "Vampire of the Continent" by Reventlow shows that the .01% rentier system has been with us a long time.  The Vampire always kept European nations at each other's throats.  The Vampire was especially upset with Frederick List's economy under the Kaiser in nascent Germany.  Industrial Capitalism along with land power was to be stamped out, hence WW1.
WW3 is about putting industrial capitalism and land power back in the bottle.  It was never intended for Russia and Germany to get together, but the Vampire never counted on China becoming a land power and building Eurasia.  They got caught flat footed.  China was supposed to become subordinate to the west, especially when Clinton gave China MFN status early in the 90's.  (This MFN status was bequeathed even though China was cheating.)
U.S. economic and military hegemony is Atlanticism passed to the U.S. after WW2.  Hence, a large Navy to power project, along with the dollar as reserve currency.   Prior to WW2, Britain ruled the waves, and her Sterling Zone was world currency.  The "special" status of U.S. and England is really London/Wall Street and Atlantic Doctrine along with the ability to create debt instruments on the world.  
All of this is dying now, and the deep state/shadow government is going increasingly insane.  Centuries of work toward one world government along with de-racinated nations is falling apart.  It appears to me that Trump is a builder and the one belt/one road initiative appeals to him.  
Doug Plumb Added May 6, 2018 - 8:52am
re "I suggest you familiarize yourself with Frankfurt School Cultural Communism.
Identity Politics, the Break-up of families, loose Sexual mores, Feminism - these are all revolutionary mechanisms that are codified in Frankfurt school doctrine.  This is very much a leftist method.'
Then Adorno/Horkheimer write about it complaining that a solution is necessary. lol. Such bullshitters.
George N Romey Added May 6, 2018 - 9:21am
I think the “Vampires” (a very good name BTW) never saw the rejection of hegemony by the Russia, China and Iran axis. Hence the constant war drums and propaganda against them as “evil” empires.
They never also saw the power of the Internet and alternative media to expose the biggest con and crime of mankind history. They are desperate to hold onto the narrative. Watching for example CNN is laughable. They’re highly paid entertainers that are simply outlandish whores for the .01%. But for now they have the majority of Americans convinced.
Katharine Otto Added May 6, 2018 - 1:36pm
A most informative thread, Robert, although your opening gambit about terminology probably didn't anticipate this.  
I continue to be impressed with your depth and breadth of information, especially about international affairs, history, and finances.  At your suggestion, I did read up a little on Friedrich List.  He lived when the Industrial Revolution was just getting underway, but I wonder if the industrial age has peaked, now, with glutted markets for manufactures and rising pollution/environmental toxins from manufacturing.  
I would agree that Russia is resource-rich, especially land-rich.  The locally-directed system of government you describe sounds workable and people-friendly, which I also like.  It will be interesting to watch.
MEFOBILLS Added May 6, 2018 - 2:05pm
 but I wonder if the industrial age has peaked, now, with glutted markets for manufactures and rising pollution/environmental toxins from manufacturing. 
 Yes it has peaked.  Marx predicted a natural evolution from Industrial Capitalism to Communism.  He never predicted that his tribal cousins would use their rental gains from finance capitalism, to both preserve finance means and to also fund a pyramid communist oligarchy onto backward economies (like Russia and China).  When Marx died, he stated "I am a most unhappy man."
Marx was supplanted by Major Clifford Hughes Douglas, who has been written out of history.
Industrial Capitalism would evolve into Social Credit Theory, and the excess of production would vector back to consumers through the price system.  
But, since humanity is caught in the grip of false theories bolstered by hypnosis emanating from its press organs - all of which is funded by rental thefts, then breaking through is difficult.  
The Stolypin group is gaining ascendancy in Russia, and their doctrine is sovereign money/social credit theory.  It will probably be Russia that has to show the world how to do things.
After the last election, Russian Atlantacists and western fifth columnists completely lost.  
George N Romey Added May 6, 2018 - 2:36pm
The current cabal will do everything and anything to stay in legitimate power because most of their wealth derives from paper assets. When stock, bonds, currency and financial debt instruments fail they become unglued.
The scary thing is that this group will use world war and hence nuclear war to remain in power. I think Putin, Xi and the Shah understand this dynamic but if push comes to shove.......
We’ve never had the ability to enlighten the masses as we do now. The real currency of the Deep State is ignorance and compliance. When and if that changes will be a time never envisioned and anticipated.
Their best protection for the .01% would have been a wide spread middle class. Fat peasants don’t ask questions of their masters, they just enjoy the spoils bestowed upon them.
MEFOBILLS Added May 6, 2018 - 2:59pm
Owners of "paper assets" means some sort of tie to the physical economy in the form of demands.
A debt based economy needs two things to work: 1) Release of debts  2) New Debts
The Magick of Debt creation I posted earlier in this thread, one of the variables was exponential claims of said debts.  These exponential claims are making demands on the real economy, which of course is unable to keep up - so the debt relation must be released.  Only a Public Bank can do that, and China has 5 large state banks.  Or, even better, the money itself becomes public and there are private "gyro" banks - something like Savings and Loans from the past.  Read my article on Canada's sovereign economy for more info
New debts are to pay off old debts.  For example, when women started flooding into the workforce in the late 60's and early 70's it created a new debtor class. This new class could be saddled with debt instruments, which then makes new bank credit, which then pays off old instruments.  
Think if it like walking inside of a funnel, where the mouth of the funnel opens exponentially.  Eventually the funnel wants to take in all of the world  and funnel it down to a few at the neck.   This is why adding an exponential function to the interest equation is usurious.
Russia was put into dollar debts beginning in the 90's with the intent of breaking the country up and creating a new debt cycle.  These new debtors would pay Oligarchs in the west their rental income.
After Tianaman square incident, China kept its state banks, so China has the ability to release debts.  
For both of the reasons one and two listed above, the West's goose is cooked.  The die is cast, and it will unfold over the next decades.  Unless WW3 breaks out, the West will have to deal with its oligarchial debt owners especially those of finance class who are making outsized gains without any real contribution to the economy - basically they are parasites.   
What cannot go on will not, and a lie cannot last forever.
Own real assets in the productive economy, and diversify to become a share owner in non dollar denominated foreign companies.  Find American companies not engaged in falsely boosting their share price with the borrowing of unproductive new debt.  
George N Romey Added May 6, 2018 - 3:16pm
If history is an indicator the Western elite will do anything including full scale war to remain atop. Go back to the life of Jesus Christ. My belief is that there was a Jesus Christ preaching fairness, goodness and the like but I doubt he was really a “god.” Still, he upset the .01% of the time and their punishment was swift and barbaric.
Doug Plumb Added May 7, 2018 - 4:43am
Common law and rationalism has that effect on the 1% ers and the real rulers, the 0.01% ers.
Katharine Otto Added May 7, 2018 - 10:13pm
What you say makes sense, but much of it is over my head.  I do perceive a kind of frenzied panic in the New York-dominated media, advertising, and financial industries.  It's almost funny, because the world they perceive and present is illusory.  As you say, lies can't last forever, but the New York lie has lasted a long time.
For little people like me, tangible assets include my house, car, and my debt-free status.  Not looking for places to park extra money anytime soon.  
I'm sure some people would love a WWIII, but I don't see much interest among the masses.  They prefer their television wars and shouting matches, with a few mass shootings thrown in for kicks.
Flying Junior Added May 12, 2018 - 2:35am
The only Deep State that I know of is the loose coalition of the Koch Brothers and Vlad Putin with his messy little bitch, Julian Assange.
My take?
So I was driving in my car today after 3:00 p.m. Not sure what show it was on NPR, but Gina Haspel was being grilled by democratic senator and then the next clip was Olympia Snowe, the last surviving republican politician on the national level with a conscience.

So the democrat is asking her about her moral compass when she gave the orders to allow CIA torturing and enhanced interrogation of suspected Al Qaeda.

It sounded like something from the Nuremburg trials. She was only acting in accordance with the law as defined by failed Attorney General, Alberto Gonzalez. The democrat accused her of a legalistic justification of her actions. She could only respond that her parents brought her up properly. The point of the line of questioning was where was her moral compass when she allowed waterboarding.

So then Olympia Snowe begins interrogating her. What I remember was that Gina Haspel ordered the destruction of ninety-two tapes of torture carried out on one suspect by the CIA. Senator Snowe was unclear on just who was depicted on the ninety-two tapes. She though that it might have involved several suspects. In a rare moment of candor, Ms. Haspel corrected Senator Snow. "It was ninety-two tapes of the torture of one suspect."

Senator Snowe say, "Well, thank you for that."

The bitch from hell is simply impervious to the fact that she ordered torture on more than one hundred occasions. And she was the one who attempted to destroy the evidence. She gave some typical flimsy excuse like the faces of the CIA agents doing the torturing were clearly visible so she had to destroy the tapes for national security.
John Minehan Added May 12, 2018 - 12:15pm
"This is why Russia can field weapons for 1/10 of the price as America."
It also may have to do with the fact their stuff often does not pass basic safety standards.  In Iraqi in 1991, I remember 2S1 122mm SP Howitzers with no separation between the fighting compartment and the engine compartment . . . .  
Kurt Bresler Added May 13, 2018 - 7:37am
Deep state reversed?   I think both sides have people and organizations which work the system whether it is for Defense dollars or for Welfare for illegal immigrants.
But the DEEP STATE is much more pronounced,  While we could say it is the defense contractors and the filthy rich  we must realize that the REAL Deep State wants to eliminate War, because it costs too much and they want to be able to control masses in fact, the world,  in a cost effective manner.
The Deep State is not a STATE or PART of this Country but the NWO, the New World Order, One World Government which is working to eliminate the difference between men and woman;  muslim and Christian;  and Good and Evil.  They wanted open borders before Hillary Did !  In fact Hillary and Bill have been operatives in the Deep State since Bill went google eyed over getting China into the WTO and began giving away all of our industrial complex.
You guys need to wake up and smell the bullsh*t,  
The Deep State is none other than a Corporate Oligarchy which cares about making more money and controlling the world and by the way, they want to preserve the World so they can live longer to spend their billions.   
So when it comes to DEEP STATE ... think, 
1.  One world government or at least One world Oligarchy controlling different governments, 
2.  Seeking World Peace, can't blow up and destroy the little world floating out in Space ...it is the only one we have that we know of.
3.  Controlling the masses by controlling the economy, Social Media, and personal information. Even down to the economy of each person, that is being able to know everything about each person (you), and if they at some point want to stop (you), then they can... such as kicking you off of Social Media sites because you are spreading the wrong message, or knocking you off while your vacationing in Bermuda.
4.  Controlling the Economy of the World by controlling the World's Gas, Oil, etc etc.   Actually they could care less about making weapons.. if they can get their bigger program in place first. (controlling each person before anyone can start a following)
5.  Spending Money on Space Exploration because they know two planets at least give you a place to go if one gets knocked off with Global Warming etc.
6.  Controlling the World's mineral deposits etc..
7. Controlling the World's Oil reserves.
8.  Controlling the World's Media and Social Sites.
These may not be in the order of most important but they will take each one as it comes. 
Believe me,  the rich have to work hard to stay that way, show me one wealthy person who takes a break and I'll show you someone who is losing money.
Competition between the rich is serious you can be wealthy one day and broke the next the only exception to this is the Jew who can depend on his brothers to put him back on his feet.
Now, no doubt some Jews might very well, be involved in this Oligarchy,  but you can bet that others could be known for their very positive view on homosexuality. 
Most Christians are not organized enough or for any "control the world" reasons,  if they get a boost it probably was accidental. 
So you look around and see who like to stick together the best, did you notice that Hillary didn't have any real competition in the primary? Wasn't that a joke?  Oh yea, the USA democratic primary was rigged.  hum... What?  This is not child's-play folks.
Did you notice that Republicans were fighting so much that one wondered if any would be left standing?
Speaking of Jews I was reading an article the other day that said Israel was the most "Gay", as in homosexual, country in the world, boasting of a 8.4 percentage rate.  
We might call it the "deep" state but I do not think anyone realizes how close we are coming to the point where the power of the American people who really have had the power to free the world is coming to an End.  And the biggest clue we could use is the doing away of Free Speech, and the Doing away of Guns.  These are two powerful weapons against such a thing as a DEEP STATE, and they are the Two biggest problems in America today.  Shutting up the naysayers, and taking away their firearms.
You don't need to agree with me,  Time has a way of revealing the truth. 
Katharine Otto Added May 13, 2018 - 10:44am
Probably most of the injustices in history have been perpetrated by people "just following orders," including unjust laws.  I don't see anyone suggesting the CIA should be abolished.  No.  Congress will just confirm a new CIA head and look the other way until the next scandal erupts.  
For reasons you mention above, the rich are the most threatened of all, and usually by each other.  There's no real consensus among the New World Order folks, although they thrive on expedient alliances to shield themselves against all those enemies on the inside and outside.
As time goes on, I see more passive resistance and passive aggression from the disenfranchised, as well as a growing underground economy.  Rather than revolt in traditional terms, I suspect they are simply dropping out and refusing to participate in the rat-race.  The fringes probably do more damage to the control freaks by not organizing, but by the guerrilla warfare tactics that keep them anonymous, out of sight, and safe.
Mike Haluska Added May 13, 2018 - 12:41pm
Wendell - you're extrapolating when you claim I said:
"Haluska said that to me in a comment about AGW once or twice. Yet more than one country has nukes that could destroy the whole planet several times over and in just a few minutes."
All I ever said was that Human Generated CO2 was less than 0.04% of the total CO2 in the atmosphere and its effect on global climate was insignificant, especially since no causality has been proven between the Earth's temperature and atmospheric CO2.
Environmentalists love to twist anything that contradicts their correlation dogma into advocacy to pollute the Earth.  It's a logical fallacy, you know it, yet you keep running back and using it.
Robert Wendell Added May 13, 2018 - 3:26pm
Wrong! You explicitly stated that human beings were powerless to affect nature that much...period! Yes, it was stupid, but you said lots of other stupid things, too.
Your pissing in the ocean analogy is absolutely NOT an analogy. CO(2) doesn't operate that way at all. You show no understanding of the different kinds of heat (e.g., latent, radiant, sensible by temperature, the different amounts of heat in the same volume of different materials with the same temperature, etc.)
Then, to top it all off, when I make real analogies that are perfect parallels in terms of their function, you come back saying it's not a valid analogy because the specific elements in the parallel are different. What in Sam's hill you think an analogy is remains beyond my ability to assess.
Robert Wendell Added May 13, 2018 - 5:15pm
Haluska, you also seem to think that because correlation is not proof of causality, if there is a correlation, then there is no causality. That's the precisely the same false logical syllogism as saying that because not all animals are dogs, dogs are not animals.
By the way, I just used a logical analogy, It's exactly the same logic. But in the past you've insisted that similar analogies I made were invalid. You tried to show this with the exact logical equivalent of saying the analogy above is not valid because causality is not a dog. Wow!
The "amazing" truth (at least it seems to amaze, or rather, befuddle Haluska):
When there is a direct causal relationship, that guarantees 100% correlation. Correlation does not prove causality, but it's far from eliminating it. In fact, it should lead us to suspect that there might be a causal relationship.
To unwittingly help prove what I've said about him, Haluska also argued once that the 100% correlation between dropping a ball and its fall to the ground is not a correlation "It's causality," he says. Yes, it's an example of the simple fact that a direct causal connection guarantees a 100% correlation.
How can anyone conduct a legitimate debate with anyone who "thinks" this way? I'm writing this for those who are not so stuck mentally that they can't see the truth because, for them, it's hidden right under their noses.
When there are multiple factors in complex systems, causality is more difficult and often impossible to show. However, it is possible to use valid statistical methods to demonstrate a high probability of causality. In the case of AGW, very careful, solid research establishes a probability of 99.9999% that global warming is real and human caused. This research deliberately avoided resorting to climate change models because people like Haluska don't trust them.
Haluska et al don't trust the very ones the same right wing propaganda shows its clueless audience that they did indeed work. The propaganda doesn't take them out from among all the ones that didn't, since that would make it even easier than it is to call them out on the false nature of their political gambit. You and your clueless friends fall for that simply because you want to believe this garbage.
Yes, your sucker bait shows some of the models have been extremely accurate into what was then the future by over a decade. These are the ones scientists actually use; NOT the ones that didn't work, of course. The ones that failed to work naturally led to the ones that work. It's called progress. The right wing propaganda machine deliberately uses this kind of sucker bait to play you.
The propaganda pretends to "prove" this way how inaccurate they've all been. This is very transparent, but you fall for it anyway. You even provide links to this kind of garbage. Yet you want to stay on the other side of this bet with a 0.00001% chance of winning it. How smart is that?
But you have commented that you don't believe the probability of a human cause is that high or even probable at all. You've said you don't even believe it's possible to use statistics that way. In fact, maybe you don't understand the abstract concept of probability in the first place. Perhaps it's not concrete and simple enough for you to comprehend.
You and your fellow suckers are being played by the real Deep State to believe that those who speak the truth, the truth the real Deep State doesn't want you to know, are the Deep State. That's the main point of this article. You believe in a fictional Deep State sold to you and your fellow suckers by the real Deep State.
The real Deep State is not a highly organized cartel. They are a loosely coordinated group of international players with common financial and political interests. They are mostly the military industrial complex, extraction industries (especially oil, coal, and rare earth metals), international banking, and last but far from least, the arms industry.
Note that they all have a common interest in financing and waging war. One thing the right gets right: they are interested in making clueless pawns and drones on the dole of everyone not in their politico-financial class. This is a very different matter from social safety nets, which have proved to be of very positive social value when properly implemented. The right just aims this at precisely the wrong people, just as their puppet masters desire.
These interests effectively run our western governments. They do so t
Robert Wendell Added May 13, 2018 - 5:16pm
They do so though, at least in democratic republics, only to the degree that the public lets them play folks like you, Haluska. You and other politically like-minded suckers are all a clear and present danger to our existence; quite the opposite of what you believe about yourselves.
There is no way to have a rational discussion with someone with so little intellectual clarity and motives that have nothing to do with assessing the truth value of any proposition. This is not to mention a clearly demonstrated, total lack of sincerity in even attempting to do so.
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 14, 2018 - 4:11am
the rich are the most threatened of all, and usually by each other.  
Indeed Katherine, their dick measuring nonsense is not unlike that you see in this thread but on a much grander scale with the fate of billions of "useless eaters" of no consequence in their calculus. 
George N Romey Added May 14, 2018 - 6:36am
But they are united in their hate against what they see as the masses of great unwashed. I’ve seen it up close.
Robert Wendell Added May 14, 2018 - 11:55am
Yes, I've seen it, too. The irony is that some of these people lead completely debauched lives, like Trump, for example. The man has no moral compass at all. No wonder the doesn't think he's done anything wrong. He screws porn stars while his wife is at home with their new baby.
However, he's not in the same class in terms of taste or knowledge of anything as the super rich. He's an ignoramus; an intellectual toad. He's got an amazing feel, though, for how to attract people like himself, especially those who aspire to his apparent wealth.
Mike Haluska Added May 14, 2018 - 5:01pm
Wendell -
You can fabricate the merits of correlation thinking and consensus science til the cows come home.  You can cling desperately to 99.999% correlation is "almost" causality - even though any statistician can point out hundreds of examples where it just aint true.  Hell - I can make just as valid of a correlation argument that the Earth's temperature causes CO2 to increase!  
However, when I point out that 100.00% of all the "Imminent Doomsday Forecasts" made by AGW proponents over the past 50 years NEVER MATERIALIZED you can't refute it - so you hurl insults. 
In REAL SCIENCE when nature disagrees with your theory JUST ONCE the theory is discarded.  Your entire argument has NOTHING to do with legitimate science and everything to do with your emotional desire to feel "morally superior" to those with superior intellect.        
Bill H. Added May 14, 2018 - 9:26pm
Mike - As I sit back and watch local ocean temperatures soar, average air temperatures increase, average humidities increase, local bird and insect species change, sea level increasing, timberline rising, vegetation changing, modes of precipitation change, and fish species change (all within 50 years), I will remember your words!
Robert Wendell Added May 14, 2018 - 9:56pm
"Hell - I can make just as valid of a correlation argument that the Earth's temperature causes CO2 to increase!" - Haluska
It does, silly. I've stated that myself so many times to you. How the heck did you make it through school with a memory like that? It's a feedback loop. In the past, solar forcing from earth's orbital changes, mostly due to Jupiter and Mars, has cause global warming that LED increase in CO(2).
This is not "theory". It's physical changes we can predict astronomically and see the effects in multiple ways that nature records for us. This time CO(2) is leading the warming. That has never happened in any of the previous cycles. So get this for one final time, Haluska:
1. Solar forcing causes atmospheric CO(2) to increase. It was always there, mostly in ocean water, but less in the atmosphere before the solar warming.
2. CO(2) increase raises the average planetary temperature over time. We KNOW that from past natural records (paleoclimatology).
These two well established scientific facts (that you can practically demo on a kitchen table) create a feedback loop. They can mutually reinforce just like thermal runaway in an electronic circuit. What we DON'T know is just how warm it has to get before we hit the knee in that curve and get an unstoppable thermal runaway for the whole planet.
Sure, global warming has actually happened in earth's long history over much greater periods of time. There were once tropical vegetation and animal populations at the poles. Genetics, however, has shown that coinciding with climate change were bottlenecks in the gene pool that almost erased human's from the planet. It should not console anyone that this has happened before.
When it happens slowly, that's one thing. When it happens fast, it's a big problem. In case that's impossibly abstract for your concrete, simplistic mode of thought, if a flood plane slowly increases, people can adapt. When it happens really fast, people die. Got it?
Bill H. Added May 15, 2018 - 1:09am
.....And when it changes at over 100 times faster than any past events, then that should tell us something.
Mike Haluska Added May 15, 2018 - 11:24am
Wendell & Bill H -
Nothing you cite as "evidence" or "proof" isn't anything that hasn't been happening for millions of years.  Your ridiculous interpretations of science are mind-boggling!  Wendell - you can't have the same two things be causal!!!  That is one of the principles of logic and science - either A causes B or B causes A, it CANNOT BE BOTH!!!  
A "feedback loop" results from an entity producing output that goes back into the SAME MECHANISM and gets re-amplified, you moron!  It is NOT an example of "reciprocal causality"!  A microphone amplifies sound and if the output gets fed back into the same microphone it gets amplified again.  You are saying that "microphones cause sound amplification" AND "sound causes microphones to amplify"!!!
Robert Wendell Added May 15, 2018 - 12:29pm
Uh, Haluska, go back to the first grade and start over. You didn't learn diddly point squat. You say, "That is one of the principles of logic and science - either A causes B or B causes A, it CANNOT BE BOTH!!!"
That is beyond simply wrong to absolutely ridiculous. Guess you have no idea how every oscillator that produces a sine wave works, such as the carrier for a radio signal or an audio signal at a single frequency. I'll make it really simple for the simple little way  you think. Then maybe, just maybe, you might even grasp one itty-bitty, simple little principle and get it right.
Sound going into a microphone generates an electrical signal. That signal gets amplified and sent to a speaker. That sound goes back into the microphone. If the feedback from the microphone is strong enough, the signal generated will cause an oscillation and you'll hear the squeal you get on a sound stage when the audio isn't managed properly.
In case you still can't grasp that, the sound caused the diaphragm in the microphone to vibrate. This caused a magnetic field to generate electrical current. An amplifier increased it's strength enough to operate a large magnetic transducer called a speaker. This turned the electrical signal into sound. That caused the microphone diaphragm to vibrate and so on around.
All feedback LOOPS work by a closed circuit of events each of which causes the next. Where it starts is completely arbitrary. Any sufficient pulse of activity anywhere along that LOOP will kick the circuit into feedback.
An electronic oscillator works by feeding its output through a tuned circuit that feeds the input of the amplifying device (e.g., a transistor). The transistor input causes output that feeds back to the input to cause output. Part of the output causes input that feeds back to the output.
It doesn't matter where it starts. Either can start the other. So where does that leave the absurd logical fiction you just invented all by your little intellectual lonesome?...huh, Haluska? You just invent your own logic and science and then have the unmitigated nerve to accuse others of inventing pseudo-science. You don't even get the fundamental logic right, much less the science valid logic implies. I'm truly sorry for you and others like you, but you're all genuine basket cases, Haluska.
Mike Haluska Added May 15, 2018 - 12:32pm
Wendell - go look up:
It's a fancy way of saying "Circular Logic" - A causes B and B causes A.
You know that throwing all that "gorilla dust" in the air impresses nobody but yourself and Bill H.  Stick with teaching music, you won't be constantly embarrassing yourself.
Mike Haluska Added May 15, 2018 - 12:34pm
Wendell & Bill H - where is your response to???
Robert Wendell Added May 15, 2018 - 12:47pm
I just debunked that in a recent post, Haluska. Go back to school and learn to read. Of course, the way you process information, I don't really think that would help much.
That insanely scattered plot the right loves so much is full of both BAD and EXTREMELY ACCURATE models. That reveals two things:
1. The modelers had to iterate their attempts many times to come up with the extremely accurate ones they actually use.
2. The right wing propagandists who publish this garbage are deliberately playing you by putting them all up. They pretend to show you how wrong they look when published all together.They love to sucker folks like you. They bank on it, quite literally.
But you fall for that kind equestrian fecal matter, don't you, Haluska? Oh, but I'm repeating myself for the hard of hearing.
Bill H. Added May 15, 2018 - 3:25pm
When evidence is in plain sight and very obvious, I don't argue or doubt.
Robert Wendell Added May 15, 2018 - 8:01pm
Yes, Bill. There are two categories of mental function in building an individual's world view:
1. Truth seeking, dynamic, and increasingly accurate
2. Preference driven, relatively static, dynamic only in terms of accretions around a fixed view, and consequently subject to remaining fundamentally flawed.
These categories represent the essence of liberal and conservative psychology. They typically manifest extremely differently in different cultural and political environments. In the Muslim world, the conservative psychology can morph easily into the terrorism that conflates jihad and spiritual merit.
Consider how strongly this contrasts with U.S. evangelical conservatism, for example. Both kinds of conservatives are  bitter enemies, but victims of the same psychological tendencies. In both cases, reason is useless in dealing with them. They're both locked into their conflicting belief systems by what is essentially the same rigid psychological predisposition.
U.S. conservatives tend to conflate liberal morals with liberal political positions. These can coincide of course, but they are not the same thing. Evangelicals are the worst offenders in their assumption that one implies the other.
On another front, if you're for social safety nets, in U.S. conservative minds, especially evangelicals, you're at least slightly pink or worse (in the sense of red as communist symbolism). Since they believe liberal political positions also imply liberal morality, they naturally paint all liberals with this kind of hateful confusion.
They think liberals represent something akin to "Godless communism", sexual promiscuity, the destruction of the family, etc. This is their way of justifying their own prejudice, dogma, and rigid belief in dogma that reality gives the lie everywhere they turn. The hypocrisy all this generates is enormous. They call themselves "pro-life" while some of them bomb abortion clinics. So in their twisted thinking unborn babies somehow trump already living human beings.
This generates irrational internal conflicts that require such severe bending of logic that it degrades any clarity of thought. They are full of logical contradictions about all sorts of things. Their views are not tempered by the logically necessary compatibility among different aspects of everyday issues of every conceivable kind.
One of the "solutions" common to this mindset is to separate these aspects of life into separate mental filing cabinets so they never meet, at least not in their minds. Of course, this inhibits the development of abstract reasoning. Instead it cultivates habitual use of extremely sloppy and utterly invalid "logic".
It also eliminates the capacity for transferring valid general principles across different fields of knowledge. This mindset is notoriously incapable of seeing the deep underlying, and necessarily abstract principles common to very different fields of knowledge and skill.
Bill H. Added May 16, 2018 - 8:06pm
Good explanation, Robert!
I was always curious in past years why the same group who professed to be "pro life", were the same group who have historically been against any restrictions on weapons ownership, pro death penalty, didn't give a hoot about enacting efforts to control pollution or global warming, and always ready to bomb any nation that didn't agree with the US.
Robert Wendell Added May 16, 2018 - 10:32pm
It's self-blinding hypocrisy, Bill, in the service of world views that are dangerously counterproductive socially. It's rooted in individual attempts to justify what is in essence fear of the unknown. That includes people and especially cultures that are unfamiliar This becomes especially vicious when such individuals view these "others" as competing with them for jobs, status, etc.
Fear of the unknown has survival value in the long history of evolution. It becomes very dangerous, though, when individuals apply it inappropriately. It easily transform into hatred (translation: fear) of people who speak, dress, eat, dance differently, listen to a different kind of music and art, and especially LOOK different from one's own provincial little tribe.
Travel. familiarity with other peoples, cultures, and languages and the ability to interact socially with them are human experiences that tend, but carry no guarantee to change all this. They famously tend to break down the provincial world views of those who previously knew nothing but their own little culture and others that are generally similar.
Trump supporters in the aggregate clearly have a strong tribal mentality of exclusion for anyone whose cultural conventions and norms violate their view of the way things are "supposed to be". This is painted all over Trump's rhetoric. It is when he is most strongly indulging this way of seeing things that he gets the loudest signals of approval from his fans.
It's so obvious to those not hypnotized by it that it truly seems a wonder that his followers fail to notice. And that's what they are: fans. Deliberately not capitalized, since it's a blatant sham, so-called "christian" evangelicals tolerate the continued awful, immoral behavior of Trump and many of his associates because he is one of them. He's just like them in terms of how he views the world.
In their shallow celebrity-worshiping mindset, Trump's current status "justifies" the dark side of their own psychological tendencies and resulting preferences. So they insist on believing he's a "born-again christian" despite his extremely un-Christ-like behavior. He sure isn't known for turning the other cheek or loving his neighbor as himself.
Bill H. Added May 16, 2018 - 11:40pm
Well put for sure! Can't argue with anything you have stated.
Robert Wendell Added May 17, 2018 - 12:51am
Long years of meditation practice clears the mind to be objective. Without clean motives, the truth is impossible to find. Those of us fortunate enough to do so find ourselves accused of the same mindset that afflicts those with the opposite tendency as described.
They naturally project on us their baseless sense of righteous, or at least for them, right beliefs. They think we're doing exactly what they are. So it becomes for them nothing beyond each saying to the other, "I'm right and you're wrong."
They know nothing else. They don't seem to know any other possibility exists. It's as if there were no objective reality. They actually act and talk as if everything is purely a matter of opinion. They signal a belief that the right to an opinion somehow makes that opinion right.
They translate the democratic ideal of one person, one vote to the belief that everyone's opinion is equally valuable. Well, next time someone in their family gets critically ill, I would challenge them to accept the janitor's opinion and the medical doctor's as equally valuable. I suggest they flip a coin to decide which to act on.
Mike Haluska Added May 18, 2018 - 3:32pm
Wendell - I just love it when you contradict yourself, show your ignorance and look foolish all in one sentence:
"The modelers had to iterate their attempts many times to come up with the extremely accurate ones they actually use."
OH - now we get it!  The "modelers" simply fiddle with parameters as many times as necessary until they get lucky and end up with an "accurate" model that explains NOTHING!  Yeah - that's real science backed up with solid statistical math!!!  Let's listen in on these "geniuses":
Wendell - well Joe, how many runs is it so far?
Joe - this is our 46th run, Bob.  we'll add 0.23 to one of the 187 coefficients and see what happens!
Wendell - gosh guys!  I'm just about piddling in my pants with excitement and wonder!  Forget Newton, Galileo, Copernicus, Maxwell, Einstein, Plank, Feynman . . . that dumb Scientific Method is no match for "peer review" and "consensus science"!!!
Joe - well Wendell, it might be nice to actually discover a law of nature that holds in all instances, is experimentally repeatable and produces consistent forecasts EVERY TIME it's used . . . but there's no GOVERNMENT GRANT MONEY IN THAT!!!
Wendell  - now if I could just figure out a way to show Haluska that computer models are accurate 100 years from now!  Too bad that NOT ONE of the thousands of 50 year old "forecasts" already on record predicting "IMMINENT GLOBAL CLIMATE DISASTER"  are in the trash can!!!
Here's the biggest difference between me and you and REAL SCIENCE AND YOU:
I discard a theory when it contradicts reality even once.  You discard thousands of contradictions to your "consensus science" theory and accept the theory if it accidentally agrees with reality once.

Dave Volek Added May 18, 2018 - 4:16pm
My apologies. I often make a few WB comments a day and often forget which posts I commented on. I missed your May 2 response to my comment, which I have just seen today (May 18). Here is a short excerpt of your wise reply:
If you're a pygmy in the jungle and never saw a magnet, anyone who shows you what one does with old rusty nails would be a wizard in your eyes. But for 99+% of our current population, including all the youth who are experts at using it, it's magic. They don't understand how any of it works any more than you as a pygmy would understand a magnet.
I will just offer my own experience in "they don't understand how any of it works."
In 1997, I started writing down my concept of democratic governance without political parties. My book is currently on its fourth version, and getting a little better each time. My last version was undertaken based on many world citizens are appalled that someone like Mr. Trump can attain the highest political office in the world. They have to be questioning the democratic system that brought Mr. Trump to this office---or so I thought.
The book is about a three-hour read; not a lot for someone who is concerned about the direction the world is going. I have been using WB (and a few other places) to promote the book. Here are the reasons why such concerned citizens are not willing to read the book:
1) Western civilization is already on some kind of inevitable decline.
2) There is a political messiah out there who can fix our country.
3) Western democracy need only enact some minor repairs to overcome its flaws.
4) More citizens need to spend more time researching and evaluating the issues.
5) More activism will force the political process to do the right things.
6) Americans need only return to their original 1787 constitution.
I have to wonder how much of the pygmy & magnet relationship is at play here. 
Robert Wendell Added May 18, 2018 - 10:15pm
"OH - now we get it!  The 'modelers' simply fiddle with parameters as many times as necessary until they get lucky and end up with an 'accurate' model that explains NOTHING!  Yeah - that's real science backed up with solid statistical math!!!  Let's listen in on these 'geniuses'." - The Mighty Brain of Haluska
This is beyond stupid, Ha-loose-ka. The ones that worked did so into the future for well over a decade. Hurricane models can't match that because weather is much more quixotic than long term average trends.
By the way, meteorologists develop hurricane models by exactly the same process I described. You once argued that the latter are different. That they are. But the method I described applies perfectly to how they develop both hurricane and climate change models.
That's the way scientists and engineers develop models of any system too complex to account for all possible factors. It doesn't matter what the application is. It could be turtle populations or the ideal operation of a steel production line. They're far from based on "nothing".
Such tools are used in science and industry every day. You're so lacking in knowledge you bullheadedly try to apply hard science criteria like equations for gravitational acceleration to biology and the weather. Weather models are responsible for the vastly increased accuracy we have now over that we had when I was growing up. They developed the same way. 
Modelers look at major factors and calibrate the models with empirical data until they make reliable predictions. Ever heard of calibration Ha-loose-ka? Is it unscientific to calibrate equipment that is based on scientific principles of operation.
I worked for years in electronics. Electronic components have tolerances. Resistors in consumer electronics typically have tolerances of around 10%. No two transistors or chips, operational amplifiers, etc. are exactly the same either.
No one goes through and measures every component and then redesigns each unit to function ideally based on complete knowledge of all the precise values. You put together the circuits in a production line and then calibrate the equipment to optimize its function. But if we apply that to modeling anything, then the Ha-loose-ka god says its pseudoscience.
Anything too complex for simple laws like the equations of motion are developed this way. So you try to pretend such models are useless, but hurricane models are based on science. So are climate change models. Have you ever looked at the hurricane models and noticed how scattered the paths get into the very near future? But they provide much better than no information and some of them are pretty darn accurate for long enough to make them extremely valuable. Billions of dollars are at stake, too.
It's much easier to be accurate with climate change models because they look at long term average trends. Here's a simple example of this principle for those among us who are intellectually challenged, many of whom hang around Writer Beat liberally dispensing donkey doo-doo:
No one can predict with certainty how many children a new marriage will produce unless one of them is sterile and there's no hanky-panky. However, predicting population growth is much easier. It can be very accurate over extended periods of time.
Please note that you avoid everything I say that you can't debunk. Your nutty grade school idea that if A causes B, B cannot cause A. Please go try to find any respectable source of knowledge about logic that supports that.
For the stuff you think you can debunk, you come up with this kind of half vast thinking. I don't feel like arguing any more with croaking toads severely afflicted with the Dunning-Kruger Effect:
"In the field of psychology, the DunningKruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability have illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.  The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence."
Mike Haluska Added May 20, 2018 - 12:24pm
Typical response from Wendell - can't refute the argument so launch a personal attack and throw out a bunch of unrelated diversions.
NOBODY has ANY IDEA how "accurate" climate models are because NOBODY knows what the Earth's climate will be like 100 years from now.  So WHAT if after thousands of iterations they get a 5 day forecast correct?  
How in the hell can ANYONE forecast the climate 100 years from now (anything less is meaningless) when we don't have any idea what the output of the Sun (the ultimate energy source behind all of all the fluctuation) will be????
Mike Haluska Added May 20, 2018 - 1:05pm
By the way, electric circuits are TINKER TOYS in terms of complexity when compared to a complex, non-linear, non-deterministic system like the climate.  Every electronic circuit can be described using linear, deterministic equations.  
Looking at "long term averages" is the absolute STUPIDEST thing anyone could do with a system as complex as climate!  You keep trying the same old crap that economists and gamblers have tried for centuries and have always failed.  Using the Past as a predictor for the long term Future is simply applying linear regression to a non-linear phenomenon.  It works for the very short term (a couple of days at best) but accuracy falls off a cliff after that.
For any Writerbeat authors out there who want to get a fundamental understanding of why what Wendell claims is fundamentally impossible, read a very enjoyable book titled:
                James Gleick
Starting at the opening chapter of the book, the author describes the early work of Dr. Edward Lorenz of MIT, the father of Chaos Theory.  You don't need a PhD in math to understand the fundamental reasons that it is a Fool's Errand (unless you have a multi-million dollar government grant that pays whether you're successful or not) to accurately forecast a complex, non-linear, non-deterministic system like the climate, stock market . . . even the local weather forecast beyond 5 days. 
More importantly, the book explains why bigger, faster, more complex computers make no difference because of an inescapable problem called "Sensitivity to Changes in Initial Conditions".  
Dr. Lorenz proved mathematically that even minute changes (6th decimal place!) in the initial conditions (e.g. today's temperature, air pressure, wind direction, etc.) result in drastically different forecasts.  Not even order of magnitude increases in the number of data collection points will eradicate the problem.  If we had 3 dimensional temp, pressure, CO2 concentration, humidity, etc. collection points 1 meter apart from the Earth's surface to the limits of the atmosphere . . .
So when Wendell claims that "tweaking with variables is refining the forecast accuracy", you will understand clearly why this is simply "guessing" at a solution that DOESN'T EXIST!!!
Robert Wendell Added May 20, 2018 - 3:31pm
"By the way, electric circuits are TINKER TOYS in terms of complexity when compared to a complex, non-linear, non-deterministic system like the climate."- Haluska
So somehow that debeunks their simple contradiction of your ridiculous, Haluska brand of "logic" by showing that A can cause B while B causes A? Is this another example of your brand of "logic". Yeah, I think it is, isn't it?
John Minehan Added May 20, 2018 - 3:40pm
It is correct to say it is difficult to "accurately forecast a complex, non-linear, non-deterministic system."
Per Taleb, the best approach is to hedge these probabilities; puts and shorts in markets and the use of the "precautionary principle" in general.
Robert Wendell Added May 20, 2018 - 4:00pm
Exactly, John, but these guys don't pay any attention to that in its application to climate. They want a simple equation, like Newton's law of motion, F=MA, force equals mass times acceleration. If you can't give them that for the whole climate system, then you're talking "pseudo-science".
They'll just bet on their preference, which is to pretend it's not even possible at all. It's as if they had a hard science equation that says it can't be. The minute you talk probabilities and what makes sense as precautionary bets on outcomes, it's all bunk for them because you can't give them a formula like F=MA.
That kind of double standard is all over their comments. It's all here in WB for anyone to see. But they're too simple upstairs, though, to care how dumb this looks and is.
John Minehan Added May 20, 2018 - 4:11pm
I have issues with "Climate Change," mainly because that appears to be a side issue to the real threat from excessive carbon in the atmosphere: acidification of the seas and the collapse of the global food chain.
However, that is an inference made from fossil evidence; the Permian-Triassic extinction event.    
Robert Wendell Added May 20, 2018 - 8:08pm
The problem with CO(2) is not a matter of "excessive carbon in the atmosphere", John. It's a matter of excessive CO(2) in the atmosphere. I think you may confusing this with air pollution with carbon particles. You may only be referring to secondary pollution that results from excessive atmospheric CO(2). Acidity in ocean water is an example you rightly point out.
CO(2) is not pollution in and of itself, though. You breathe it out every time you exhale. The right is overly fond of pointing this out as if it debunked all concern about excessive CO(2).
CO(2) is essential for life. It's part of the cycle of what we can call global respiration. Similarly, water's both essential to life and dangerous. You can drown in it. Its warmth feeds hurricanes under certain conditions, etc. It is NOT in itself a pollutant unless it's contaminating your swimming pool and flooding your house or your lungs.
So global warming has nothing to do with toxic air pollution. That's a problem. But it's a separate one unless you define pollution as pumping it to great excess into the atmosphere.
This excessive CO(2), however, is not toxic when restricted to that context. It most certainly is, however, human interference with its natural balance. So that is a valid definition of pollution, but NOT in the sense of atmospheric toxicity.
The acidity of ocean water is pollution, though, by any definition. So if similar kinds of secondary effects is all you mean, excessive CO(2) in the air is indeed polluting our oceans by making the water way too acidic. Ask the seafood fishermen. It's toxic to many populations of marine life, including coral reefs. The latter are essential components of the global respiratory system.
There are many other toxic effects of excessive CO(2) that we could list. Most, if not all of these we can legitimately call pollution. So meaning is always context-dependent, isn't it?
That's why the documents of lawyers and scientists define their terms. They have to nail things down too precisely for the ambiguities of dictionaries to handle adequately. Insincere arguments that wish to debunk you at any cost won't let you do this, though.
For example, most conservatives are verbal absolutists. This is just one little sampling of their general love of irrational absolutes. They tend to think words have ironclad definitions. They won't let you (or scientists) specify their meanings more precisely. This goes double if they think their preferred definition of what you said favors their attempts to debunk your argument.
This has happened to me here countless times. It's maddeningly stupid and a waste time to counter it if all you want to do is change their thinking. I argue with them mostly because I want to give readers clear reasons not to swallow their foolish arguments.
Most who argue with me hear in WB make up their own innovative rules of "logic". They invent feckless attempts to debunk whatever they dislike. Of course, they reverse the same logic whenever they think it favors them.
This has nothing to do with a sincere search for truth, that is, genuine dialectic discourse. The principles by which dialectic discourse operates lie completely outside their mental vocabularies. They don't even have a clue what it is, let alone how to do it.
John Minehan Added May 20, 2018 - 8:14pm
The oceans are a carbon sink.  They absorb atmospheric CO2 and, in the process the oceans become more acidic.  Fissile evidence indicates this may have been one of the causes of the K-T Extinction. 
John Minehan Added May 20, 2018 - 8:14pm
Robert Wendell Added May 20, 2018 - 10:56pm
Yes, John. I thought my reply indicated that I understand that very well. As the oceans warm, less CO(2) can stay in solution. (Think the CO(2) of fizzing cokes in the summer.) This accelerates the accumulation of what's already in the atmosphere. It's a positive feedback loop that can run away with very negative consequences. 
Right now, if I remember correctly, about 40% of what we add is going into the ocean CO(2) sink. Of course, this is already ruining the shell fish industry, since shells cannot develop fully under acidic conditions. (Find me a shellfish merchant who doesn't know this is happening right NOW! But some people live in a little isolated, personal, ideological bubble and never notice anything very far outside it.)
As the long term global temperature increases, the ocean gradually becomes a weaker CO(2) sink. At some point, it quits acting as a sink. Then further temperature rise reverses this.  The oceans become a net source of CO(2) for the atmosphere and the feedback loop begins. No one knows exactly where this threshold is. I tend to think maybe we shouldn't want to find out.
Bill H. Added May 22, 2018 - 1:29am
If one does some research on the present rate of coral reef die-off, it really becomes quite clear.
As an example, over the 27 year period from 1985 to 2012, scientists from the Australian Institute of Marine Science witnessed the loss of 51% of coral on the central and southern regions of the Great Barrier Reef. Just over the period since that study ceased, this has risen to over 67%. Most of the recent increase has occurred over the last 2 years.
Robert Wendell Added May 22, 2018 - 2:56am
Nothing is clear for those who refuse to see, John.
Bill H. Added May 22, 2018 - 11:29am
Breitbart even published an article that tries to convince the brain-dead that coral reef dieoff is a hoax.
Seems that Big Oil will resort to anything to save their profits.
Robert Wendell Added May 22, 2018 - 1:50pm
This Website is loaded with suckers for that kind of equestrian fecal matter, John. It's all a matter of preference. Truth has nothing to do with their motives.
MEFOBILLS Added May 22, 2018 - 2:13pm
Robert, you are looking in all the wrong places.
A debt money system is something like walking inside of a funnel.  It opens up exponentially and consumes the earth.
Debt instruments are claims on the real economy.  So, the "earth" is flogged to produce. 
Externalities like pollution or warming are not priced.  For example, dumping toxic computer parts in third world countries externalizes the pollution and lowers monetary price.  However, the real price is not in monetary terms, but instead is destruction of environment.   Consuming the earth to make goods, to then make prices, to then earn a living, to then pay a tithe to your money master in the form of debt ... this is the Western Paradigm.
There is plenty of radiant energy received on earth to supply our needs, we don't need to burn fossil fuels.   Or only some fossil fuels are needed, and to fix this problem requires some admission that economy comes before all.
This is the relation:  Economy>Politics>War. 
Equestrian Fecal Matter is people not understanding because they have not been trained or taught.  In turn this lack of training or understanding also applies to you.  This lack of understanding is on PURPOSE, to keep a population dumbed-down to then allow debt based usury to continue.
To graduate in economics means to accept and regurgitate hypnosis, especially as the schools chair funding comes from finance/banks.  
Not seeing the root problem, means connecting dots that should not be connected.
Robert Wendell Added May 22, 2018 - 2:42pm
I don't think I'm looking in any wrong places, Mefobill. You're just not aware that I'm looking in many of the same places you are. The phenomena you mention, (i.e., bad economic theory>politics>war) are not very formally organized unless we only look at individual elements and normal business negotiations among them.
Formal organization may take place locally in many places. But the socio-politico-economic phenomena you refer to are more the collective result of a worldwide but everywhere local, formal micro-organization with each element acting on its own myopic perception of self-interest. Since many industries have mutual and/or overlapping interests, they naturally coordinate as in any kind of normal business relationships.
Yes, they all rationalize their self-justifying worldviews in similar or at times even exactly in the same ways. But that doesn't mean that they all conspire to create the results we're seeing. I think they're too myopic to even foresee these results or even perceive them objectively in real time as they occur. (I think that came from the aptly named Department of Redundancy Department.)
Bill H. Added May 22, 2018 - 5:24pm
We are in the position we are today because of the interests of those who would stand to loose profits if research and inroads into alternative energy sources would be allowed to continue "unchecked".
I think most of us may know that we were intended to use the energy from the sun, and everything was put here to allow us to do it. The only "problem" is that Big Oil's bottom line would suffer. Just as virtually all of the drugs we would need are in nature, but you know who's bottom line would suffer.
MEFOBILLS Added May 22, 2018 - 6:00pm
Bretton Woods international trading gold standard was broken by Nixon deficit spending on IndoChina.  Nixon went off of gold standard in 71, then in 73 Kissinger went to Saudi and codified petrodollar system.  73 agreement then codified new petrodollar/Tbill system that we run under today.
Petrodollar/T Bill system means that international exchange is based on holding TBills as a paper asset, while using the Military to insure the system remains in-tact.
Much of the deep state apparatus is part of this monetary system.   This is why Saudi's are part of world government. 
Big Oil, International Finance, Invade the World, Invite the world (unwanted immigration) are all part of the same thing.  
This private creation of credit control the polity, which then allocates the labor energy of populations.  It miss-allocates because pricing is incorrect, and purchasing power is incorrect.
Here is a video on how purchasing power is incorrect, and describes some of the history I mention.
I know you guys don't like to hear it, but our ((Friends)) are dead set against Social Credit Theory, or redistribution of economic surplus - why?  Because their in-group evolutionary mechanism requires a Con.
Social credit theory
Robert Wendell Added May 22, 2018 - 8:24pm
Fossil fuels are nothing more nor less than a limited amount of solar energy stored over millions of years. They represent valuable and irreplaceable chemical stocks that we are wantonly burning as fuel until those chemical stocks become absent for future generations. This remains true with or without climate change.
Economics boils down to modification of the physical and informational environment in the interest of improving and sustaining quality of life. What looks today like an improved quality of human life may not be that in any long time frame. First of all, human life is dependent on all kinds of other life.
We are currently making ourselves more comfortable in the short term by damaging huge swaths of this other life. Future generations are not at all likely to thank us for that. Some people are so myopic/sociopathic that they are not the least bit persuaded even by facts they accept to change their behavior to protect our offspring. I've had fundamentalist "christian" conservatives tell me it doesn't matter because at our age we'll be dead before any of this matters. How nice! How "christian".
Now let's look at what the simple, bottom-line definition of economics I gave just above implies. It takes energy to modify both the physical and informational environment. Energy has to be intelligently articulated energy in order to increase quality of life. These are the ultimate, baseline facts regarding economics.
Money is simply a medium of exchange. Its only role in terms of the bottom-line factors of energy and intelligence is ultimately information exchange regarding who is doing what and how it's being compensated. It is not fundamental.
Humans lived for many tens of thousands of years without it. Banking, financial instruments, usury, etc., to the degree that they damage the economy, are simply flawed intelligence introduced into the process of articulating structural change. From spinning thread and weaving clothes to cracking rocks with a ledge hammer, every economic act involves only two fundamental factors: energy and intelligence.
Energy comes already distributed. There is ultimately no need for large-scale energy technology except in the absence of the technology to exploit what is already available locally. With the technology to exploit locally available energy, the need for fossil fuels completely disappears for the vast majority of applications. The problem from now back into the past is that such technology has not existed to make this intrinsically omnipresent energy available.
To do this, we need:
  1. local, efficient means of conversion to usable forms
  2. adequate storage buffers to even out the intermittent nature of locally available energy
  3. local means of distribution and an energy carrier for mobile energy consumption (e.g., transportation).
Local means of distribution have existed for a long time. We don't have the mobile consumption part down yet. Neither do we have 1 and 2 above down pat quite yet. However, 1 is already viable enough to have already become more cost effective than conventional fossil fuels for adding new sources. Worldwide in 2017, 63.5% of investments in new energy capacity was in renewable according to this report:
"In 2016, renewable power technologies continued to attract far more investment dollars than did fossil fuel or nuclear power generating plants. An estimated USD 249.8 billion was committed to constructing new renewable power plants (including USD 226.6 billioni without large-scale hydropower, plus an estimated USD 23.2 billion for hydropower projects larger than 50 MW). This compares to approximately USD 113.8 billion committed to fossil fuel-fired generating capacity and USD 30 billion for nuclear power capacity. Overall, renewable energy accounted for about 63.5% of the total amount committed to new power generating capacity in 2016."
A radio transmission is a perfect microcosm illustrating the essential nature of all economic activity. It consists of the transmission of electromagnetic energy modulated (i.e., articulated) by information, sometimes even intelligent. (I'm joking, of course.) But some intelligence, high quality or otherwise, is modifying the electromagnetic energy carrier to communicate some kind of information (high quality or not).
When energy is directed at structural modification (e.g., construction, manufacturing, mining, etc.), some intelligence has to direct its use to achieve the intended result. However, what is desirable in the short term may not be in the
Jeff Michka Added May 22, 2018 - 9:15pm
Sorry to see Robert swimming in the "Deep State" pool.  The constant talk about the Deep State was a WB staple for quite a while.  So okay, Robert, I'll ask you:  where are the minutes of deep state planning sessions?  Where is the deep state meeting up to plot "the fate of nati ons."  Hope you feel better soon.
MEFOBILLS Added May 22, 2018 - 9:44pm
The shadow government/deep state is defined here:
shadow government
The planning is done out in the open, and also at events like Davos.
Robert Wendell Added May 22, 2018 - 10:20pm
Go back, Jeff, and read the article and my comments again if you want to know how far off the mark your comment is. I'm not holding my breath, though. My last comment just said the opposite of what you're accusing me of. Guess you couldn't tell (if you even bothered to read it).
MEFOBILLS Added May 22, 2018 - 10:39pm
The jury is still out on "Fossil Fuels."  Even so, it is not wise to get out of equilibrium with nature by burning so much.
Fossil fuels are nothing more nor less than a limited amount of solar energy stored over millions of years. They represent valuable and irreplaceable chemical stocks
Since we found a lake of Methane (non fossil source of carbon) on Titan, then Russian deep oil theory has more credence.  It is also likely why Russia is a low cost producer of oil.
titan methane
Bill H. Added May 22, 2018 - 11:06pm
I'm thinking that maybe our "creators" (who I believe are residents of a planet in another galaxy) are watching to see if we actually discover and use what we are supposed to use as energy sources. Apparently we have so far failed the test. I suspect they wanted to see if we would go for the most initially profitable source versus the most logical source.
All one has to do is calculate how many megawatts of energy that the sun beams to the earth daily. The rest is common sense.
Robert Wendell Added May 23, 2018 - 1:28am
If you're serious, Bill, Andromeda is the closest spiral galaxy to our own. (There are other types, much smaller, though, that are closer.) It and our own Via Lactea are circling each other. Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away.
That means what we see is light that started its journey toward us at 300 kilometers per second about 2.5 million years ago. Andromeda could have magically disappeared a million years ago and we wouldn't know for another 1.5 million years.
This is not theoretical speculation. It's empirically validated fact. The oldest fossil evidence so far of homo sapiens is only 300 thousand years old. So if we assume we've found the beginning (keeps going further back, though), our species has been around only 12% of the time since the light we see from Andromeda left it. So I'm not sure how anyone could "watch us" from another galaxy, not even our own's twin. 
MEFOBILLS Added May 23, 2018 - 11:51am
There is a big difference between homo sapiens and us, the unfortunately named homo sapien sapiens.
The Neanderthals and/orHomo sapiens turned up 200-300,000 years ago and Homo sapiens sapiens - that's us - 160,000 years after that.
Modern Humans evolved further during the last ice ages about 11,500 years ago.  
Some tribes of Homo Sapiens Sapiens lived in equatorial regions and did not evolve for trust and a time preference like those who had the worst of ice age pressure. 
In other words, tribes of Homo Sapiens Sapiens who also survived through fourth ice ages are the only group that developed civilization modes and abstract reasoning to ponder their existence. 
Our cognitive "sub-species" is much younger @ only about 10,000 years.   
Robert Wendell Added May 23, 2018 - 2:36pm
Mefobills, I'm glad you're so interested in human evolution. So am I. Much of what you say is open to continual modification. We're finding that Neanderthals were much more cognitively developed than we ever previously imagined. They clearly had speech. They not only had the FoxP2 gene, but had cottage industry that clearly required organizational levels that could not function without speech.
Some currently existing species of ape are able to handle much more sophisticated levels of cognition, quasi-human, than we dreamed when provided an environment that fostered it. This research is now taboo, since it results in a cruel quality of life for its experimental subjects.
The orangutans and chimps involved become extremely depressed because they're not socially accepted by either humans nor their own species. One such victim, an orangutan with an extensive vocabulary and an impressive ability to communicate in very original and creative ways, told his human "mother" with American sign language that his new zoo companions of his own species were effectively "orange dogs".
So I perceive a lot of human bias in the current, multiple theories of evolution that ignores what other fields of research have uncovered about animals we still generally consider to have much lower cognitive development than they actually do.
But after all, I only mentioned this to make a point about the distance between us and the closest similar galaxy, Andromeda. There are hundreds of billions of galaxies within range of our current technology to detect them. Most humans lack any knowledge of the true character and scope of the universe in which they live.
MEFOBILLS Added May 23, 2018 - 2:47pm
 Most humans lack any knowledge of the true character and scope of the universe in which they live.
I've often wondered what would happen with a basic income, and also people having a ride into space.  
We are at a point now, where smart machines can do most of the work, providing for basic income.  Re-usable rockets like Elon Musk is developing, or even something like Burt Rutan's space ship one, will change human perception.  In other words, a ride into space might open closed minds.  
Right now we live in this dog eat dog world of competition, where some 25% of purchasing power is siphoned away, so people cannot buy their output.  This creates a desperate downgraded type of humanity.
There is some indicator of what would happen.  When the Aryan tribes invaded Greece, they had slaves in a 1:10 ratio.  There was little in the way of money, and the rulers had free time.  There was then an explosion of creativity from this ruling class of people (yes, unfortunately the indigenous slaves were not free to ponder the universe.)  The Western world is still using this Greek creativity today.  
Bill H. Added May 23, 2018 - 4:18pm
Robert - I have mentioned more than once that I believe we are probably just some alien kid's science fair project.
Jeff Michka Added May 28, 2018 - 1:37pm
Sorry you feel I attacked your, Robert.  I am weary of "the Deep State excuse" heard from everyone from Orange Smear to The cast of WBers who live to use the Deep State as an excuse for total civic disengagement, like Geo Romey.  All this swamp drain talk!!  Geezus, take a look at who's "draining," one wallet to another?  Probably.  I still hope you feel better and get over the Deep State soon.  I wonder what the CDC has to say about "deep-statism" as infectious disease. 
Robert Wendell Added May 28, 2018 - 9:33pm
Jeff, did you only read the headline? I know the right wing idea of the "Deep State" is completely out to lunch. But there is a real Deep State. It's quite the opposite of what the right thinks it is. It's exactly those who are playing the suckers for right wing propaganda against their own interests who are the real deep state.
This one is not formally organized as the right wing fiction advertises their idea of it. That doesn't mean that there are no local pieces of it that are very well organized internally. But they are a loose, informal coordination of interests across a broad spectrum of industries, mostly the extraction industries such as fossil fuels and rare metals, the military industrial complex, and the international banking community.
This last, the banking community, holds the purse strings for the others. They practically own our government along with many others. This is the real deep state. See my article Practical Reality Check II for more depth and an especially solid research source to back it up
Jeff Michka Added May 28, 2018 - 9:47pm
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Robert.  Now, since you are becoming a new deep state warrior, where are the minutes from the last meeting of but the  deep state operatives plotting the takeover of the world?  Where did they meet?  I  will agree the money in politics is extremely problematic to us all save the uberwealthy who provide the noney to our "electeds."
Robert Wendell Added May 29, 2018 - 12:32am
Uh, Jeff, I just finished telling you there is no formal organization for the real "Deep State". The right wing conspiracy fiction is just that...pure fiction. But our "representatives" in both houses do not represent us.
You just said essentially the same thing, to wit: "I  will agree the money in politics is extremely problematic to us all save the uberwealthy who provide the money to our 'electeds'." Is my language so opaque to you that you don't notice that?
Our "representatives" represent a deep state that is not what the right wing tries to sell, but the one you seem to have just inadvertently defined. The "uberwealthy" are the deep state. The right wing hypothesis of a formally conspiratorial deep state is a pile of cow poop...or its masculine equivalent.
if there is no formal organization; nothing beyond a loose confederation of international business entities/actors who do not have a general meeting for all corporate actors at which they take minutes, then from out of where in your blessed anatomy are you pulling that question?
Robert Wendell Added May 29, 2018 - 12:35am
Jeff, did you read the article at the link I provided in my previous post in reply to you? I find it difficult to discuss anything with those who fail to read or at least understand anything I've said.
MEFOBILLS Added May 29, 2018 - 11:13am
I would commend, therefore, to you a most serious consideration of this issue, whether you wish the economic system to be made the vehicle for an unseen government, over which you have no control, which you did not elect, and which you cannot remove so long as you accept its premises; or whether, on the other hand, you are determined to free the forces of modern science, so that your needs for goods and services may be met with increasing facility and decreasing effort, thus, in turn, permitting humanity to expend its energy on altogether higher planes of effort than those involved in the mere provision of the means of subsistence.
                  C.H. Douglas, The Breakdown of the Employment System
The money system required a con, which then morphed to become the Deep State.  This Con was known to monetary thinkers 100 years ago, it is only now gaining consciousness of the masses.
to be made the vehicle for an unseen government, over which you have no control, which you did not elect, and which you cannot remove so long as you accept its premises;
Robert Wendell Added May 29, 2018 - 1:52pm
es, and the media really do spread some fake news to some degree because they accept its premises, Mefobill. However, they are not fake news in the sense that Trump uses the term. He uses this term for solid facts he doesn't like, especially solid facts about his own sordid past and present.
Look at his associates. You don't keep company for so long with such criminal elements, so many of them, if you're snow white yourself. The man is a habitual liar, compulsive liar with a lousy and very vengeful temperament. His kind is the problem; not the cure. 
Jeff Michka Added May 29, 2018 - 3:47pm
Hey, Robert, I won't say I'm sorry, since there's nothing to be sorry for if I misinterpreted your statements and articles.  I guess I find the topic as we've both noted, money in politics, and not secret societies organized to oppress the Trumpist base. We need to drop the deflector shields of calling oligarchs "the Deep State," giving them status they don't deserve and feeding "Well, it's another conspiracy against "Us," so we can't do anything, we  can't There's a streak of that here in the comments.
Robert Wendell Added May 29, 2018 - 8:41pm
Yes, Jeff, that's fine. I do have to wonder whether you read past the title of my article here. The very beginning sentences say:
Ever wonder who the real "Deep State" is? The hard right thinks they know, but they've got it all "bassackwards" as we used to say in Tennessee when I was growing up. [First sentences from my article above, emphasis added]
---- End Quote
So doesn't that make clear that I'm saying what you just said?...namely, "...not secret societies organized to oppress the Trumpist base." This becomes especially clear if you read the rest. I'm coming from the opposite side of that. The whole article is dedicated to turning the whole Trumpist right wing idea of the deep state on its head.
I also cited an article in one of my previous comments here that reveals that the author of a book on this subject and who was even the one who coined the term Deep State wishes the Trump worshipers would quit perverting it by so grossly misapplying it.
Robert Wendell Added May 29, 2018 - 8:57pm
To all: 
In a couple of previous comments here I provided a link to another article of mine, Practical Reality Check II. For some reason they are now bad links. This puzzles me, since I checked them after putting them into the comments.
Clicking on the link above or the address itself below will get you there. It clarifies in more detail what I mean by "deep state" with strong evidence from a Swiss research project backing it up.
Jeff Michka Added May 30, 2018 - 6:07pm
I'm not ceding my abilities or actions to some "Deep State", I don't care what flavor.  And like global climate change, Trumpists aren't going to stop tagging the Deep State for all opposition to Trumpism.  Trumpists want the "easy" of something to blame they claim they understand.  I firmly believe oligarchs are the wealthy "responsibles."  Who buys all the lobbyists?  And for Rs, wealth confers sainthood.  back to Money in politics, not some convolution of wealthy "plotters."  Get rid of money driving politics and things might change.  Someone might even try Volek's TDG stuff, but I doubt, as it is will try it.  Volek might well have good reason not to spearpoint his own concepts, but the rest of the world, being criticized for not falling into Volek's line might not buy his "reasons" for not practicing what he preaches.
Robert Wendell Added May 30, 2018 - 8:19pm
Jeff, you say, "I'm not ceding my abilities or actions to some 'Deep State', I don't care what flavor." So why do you think you have to?  As a people, that is, collectively, it is we who are ultimately responsible for letting them take way too much power from us.
Not wanting to participate in this is good. I don't cede my abilities or actions to them either. That doesn't make them go away. In fact, denying the reality of their existence cedes your abilities and actions to them.
We need to understand and vote accordingly. I, unlike some who understand their grip on our society, believe we still have enough of a democratic republic left for our votes to work as long as enough of us are immune to their savvy techniques of social manipulation.
Jeff Michka Added May 31, 2018 - 6:49pm
End Citizens Untied and get the money out of lobbying and politics.  I don't need to keep acknowledging the existence of oligrarchs, and never have.  Oigarchs run Russia and have too much say in the US.   And I  don't have to play along with the deep state OR acknowledge their presence to WBers all fearful and agog over "purchased power."  Do something, folks, and you too Robert.  The so-called deep state has been pontificated to death, yet they live, right?
Robert Wendell Added May 31, 2018 - 8:08pm
Dear Jeff,
Both Republicans and Democrats are beholden to the real deep state. The Republicans are just more in your face about it. Senator Dick Durbin said, “And the banks — hard to believe in a time when we’re facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created — are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place,” [Emphasis added]
Now please go read this very objective research.
MEFOBILLS Added May 31, 2018 - 8:27pm
Oigarchs run Russia and have too much say in the US.   
You've been drinking the kool aide.
Putin has taxed the Oligarchs and told them to stay out of politics.  You are spouting Western propaganda issued by main stream media.
The Oligarchs were allowed to keep their ill gotten gains.  Many fled to London, the seat of finance capitalism.
Putin's power groups is the Andropov's group that formed out of the former KGB.  It is mostly bureaucrats designed to be managers, not spies.  
Robert Wendell Added Jun 2, 2018 - 2:06am
So what flavor of Kool-Aid (correct spelling) are you drinking, Mefobills? You don't seem to have a clue about what's really important in Russian politics. Putin is sitting on billions outside Russia. He's at the top of a witch's brew of interests among the ex-Soviet bureaucrats who have become today's Russian oligarchs because they weren't ever the least bit sincere about real communism and Marxist ideals.
I'm not defending communism, by the way, so please don't be stupid and go there. But the fact remains they were not the least bit sincere about the Marxist ideals they preached to their proletariat. They grossly violated Soviet law and stashed billions outside the country. Putin is one of them.
As I already mentioned, he's holding on to his power out of desperation to save his skin. He knows the minute he's out of power he becomes a target. He's gone too high and too far for his successors not to view him as dangerous to their aims. So he can either leave office and quickly die or stay in office until he dies.  Which he naturally prefers is kind of a no-brainer, wouldn't you think?
MEFOBILLS Added Jun 2, 2018 - 8:46am
The spelling police again.  Don't do that - it is infantile.  The message is what is important.
I watch Russian politics closely, which is why I am able to tell you straight up, that Putin has gone after most of the Oligarchs.  This became necessary in the 90's because they had cornered most of the Russian economy.  
Putin's power base is the people of Russia.  He installed Governors over the Oblasts 
MEFOBILLS Added Jun 2, 2018 - 8:48am
The governors are a direct line back to Putin which is a way of reducing corruption.  
Putin also laughs at the idea of staying in power and is actively creating a group of people, of bureaucrats and managers....a leadership pipeline if you will.   
Robert Wendell Added Jun 2, 2018 - 11:52am
Yeah, Mefobill, I know. Nobody likes to think what they don't do well or correctly is important. My infantile is a grown person who still can't spell. On your last comment, you sucker for the ex-Soviet propaganda machine and drink their Kool-Aid. I'm through with that, OK?

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