Have you been told by atheists that saying " God did it " does not explain anything? Do they say God is simply a God of the gaps, that when we do not understand something Christians say: ' God did it"? What atheists are saying is that the God Hypothesis explains nothing. They are right, at least in the way they say it.
Now, when they make this argument they are telling us that believing in God explains nothing. Obviously, Christians do not believe this but lets take them at their word.
So what we know have to ask atheists is why would ancient man with no idea of god explain what they do not understand by saying god did it, when as atheists know so well, saying God did it does not explain anything?
A group of persons who know nothing about god, do not have a word for god or an idea of god and have never discussed or debated the issue of god would hardly decide to say god did it as an explanation when god would mean no more to them than luthea means to us. Would you agree with anyone who told you that luthea did it, regardless of what you asked? So why would someone who has no idea what a god is take as an explanation, god did it?
Once more atheists are proven wrong simply by the degree of stupidity inherent in their arguments.
Think of a group of cavemen looking at lightening (which they have seen as apes and all those intervening forms), for millions of years. One day they become scared of lightening and Og says, god did it. The rest look at Og and say, are you nuts? who or what is god? So now imagine Og trying to convince the rest of the tribe that this idea of god is an explanation for lightning, or anything else?
If you have a problem with this just think of Og explaining; "luthea did it", and you can see how preposterous the idea is that cavemen invented the idea of god to explain natural phenomenon? If that is what they were even trying to do why would they not seek a natural explanation?
See how dumb the idea is that ancient man created the idea of god to explain what he did not understand, when of course it does not answer the question of why would man create something he did not understand to explain something he did not understand?
Man never created the idea of God. Because there is no benefit to it which even atheists admit, which means atheists formulated an explanation which they admit explains nothing. So, what we need to ask is why would atheists use the idea of god to explain the idea of god when they know for a fact the idea of god explains nothing?
Hmmmmm?
Comments
I thought not.
I think the whole basis of your argument is, like religion, based on fiction.
Two points. 1) You really need to work on your grammar. I see a lot of mistakes in this question and many other sentences as well. 2) It doesn’t matter if you’re an atheist or not, it makes complete sense for ancient man to explain what he did not understand by believing there was a higher being. The same is true for modern man.
Now, now, Opher. I am sure I could locate a dozen video recordings of this on the internet...lol.
Who was it that said, "If there were no god, man would create one?" We seem to need a god. Most atheists create their own god in one form or another. The Climate Change group created their own god in the name of science. There are many such examples. God is convenient for explaining the things we can't explain. God is also convenient for a select few to hold power over others. It is quite easy to see this process if one were to look at Climate Change objectively.
In the 1970s our currency was taken off the precious metal standard: it's only worth anything, technically, because of God. "In God We Trust", emblazoned on all US currency, is an affirmation of faith, and the only thing that backs the value of our currency. There is no gold in some vault that makes a dollar a dollar, just our faith in God.
So, we should ask all American atheists to give up their money, technically, if they don't have faith in God, they don't recognize the value of a dollar...
They were created to provide the myth and unity that large groups of humans need in order to exist together. Without these fictions order breaks down. They work.
Because they work doesn't mean they are real.
When China takes over the Yen will rule and the Dollar will collapse. Fictions are ephemeral.
Don't pin your hopes on China to destroy the American menace (according to Opher's world). The Chinese economy is a house of cards. One should never believe ANYTHING that the Chinese government says. The Chinese economy will falter when its population of workers goes into decline, which will happen. There is no question about it. China is the land of many laws. It has some of the strongest worker protection laws of any nation. But, the laws are selectively enforced. In effect, there is no rule of law in China. I have experienced how the law works firsthand. No nation that does not respect the rule of law can never be a world leader. It is simply the triumph of hope over experience.
Bill, people say god did it when they have a god, please try and follow my argument, what I am asking is why would someone say, god did it who had no conception of god, and animists do not believe in gods they believe in spirits basically the idea that trees are people like us to be made friends with and not offend, no more different than other tribes.
I repeat, when we have x we can use x to explain y. But atheists all claim x explains absolutely nothing. So I repeat, given that no ancient man knew what god was or had any use for god and given that saying god did it explains nothing and solves nothing why would ancient man create the explanatory idea of god when in fact the concept explains nothing... In short I claim atheists create a contradiction which not one of you are even willing to confront let alone make any effort to reconcile.
You say
We invented god and gods. There's nothing difficult about it.
Actually it is very difficult. Unlike all the all "fictions" you mention, including money, government, kings, etc., the belief in god/gods is a complete waste of time if in fact he/she/it/they don't exist at all.
Think about it, when humans entered history (aka started using written language that we can decipher today) they already came in with a belief in god/gods. WHY??? Everything else they appeared to believe in held a TANGIBLE, practical reason to believe in it. They were living hand-to-mouth, what purpose did believing in some unseen god/gods serve?
You could make the argument that belief in god/gods created a Marxian "opiate" to keep people in line. But wouldn't threats of severe bodily harm be better?
No. An atheist doesn't believe in God, so I highly doubt any would blame/credit something on God. If an atheist said something like that, he or she wouldn't be an atheist.
In olden days the same sort of associations would take place with changing seasons, coming of rains, end of diseases - all manner of things. They were associated with ceremonies, prayers, feasts, fasting, sacrifices, costumes etc. The sun rose because the god was pleased. The climate became warm again because the gods were placated.
Basic human psychology. We all do it - touching wood, black cats and lucky numbers.
Thanks, that was really interesting!
But as an example I knock on wood for good luck. I don't know why I do it, but I don't attach any association with God in that regard.
Ancient people would conduct ceremonies for rain and such, but I don't understand the connection between trying to get good luck, and God. For good luck, you don't really know/care where it comes from, you just want it. The concept of a higher being seems much deeper than searching for luck.
It is something very intangible, and yet really important. For prehistoric man, there really isn't anything else like it. Everything else has to do with just basic survival. Of course we like to think of prehistoric man as being brutish and supremely ignorant, but I'd like to think that they were a lot smarter than we give them credit for....
Sure, your answer with associations makes total sense concerning luck, many of us do it in some way, but it doesn't concerning a belief in God. HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT LEAP?
Bonjour :) I didn't decide that really. My personal logic and interest in science led me to that automatically since I was a kid. A plus was that my parents never tried to push me in any direction.
But I can live very well with believers as long as they're no hypocrits. My wife and my business partner and friend are Muslims. So what LOL
Atheists say belief has no validity, it produces no results, provides no answers, gives no solutions, it is totally pointless and without merit. OK.... so that is the atheist position.
So, the next question is, so how did gods come about. Atheist suggest ancient mankind fabricated them. So, I ask why when they are not an answer to anything?
OK, so here is the punch line.... either belief fulfills some purpose and produces a result to the degree it creates a reinforcement or it does not which means the belief would die out over the millenia atheists say mankind evolved?
For those who say mankind was stupid and could not think of a rational solution then you need to explain why he was perfectly able to fashion elegant solutions to the problem of math, astronomy, and many other things a lot of which is beyond modern mans understanding. Why did ancient man understand one needed to find practical solutions to everything else but went off the rails when thinking about why bad things happened?
So, please clear your mind, take a deep breathe and look at the condundrum you yourself created and deal face on with the issue. Thanks
It is necessary to ask oneself "Why?" I tell you why; it is a hedge against the collapse of the RMB. There are the State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) and individuals. The Chinese government has cracked down on the SOEs. That is why you don't hear so much about it today. You can't be wealthy in China without the approval of the government, at least that is what the Chinese tell me. Many of the wealthy are planning their escape from China. Some are investing in the future of their children. The Chinese are not long-term thinkers, contrary to popular belief.
Why ?
All of them are no proven fact. So either you believe all or none LOL
You can prove that the world does not exist as you see it in solid scientific terms. Add freewill to that and you are as close as you can get to proving God and completely discrediting a purely materialistic view of the world. My movie, Dialectic does this.
"god gave us free will". A clever way to avoid your question and prevent demanding proof of its existence and intentions...
Quantum theory does indicate that there is much more to the universe than solid Newtonian physics. But your extrapolations are simply you putting your spin on it. You don't get any nearer proving there's a god.
You have:
Belief in luck is belief in the power of supernatural gods. The knocking on wood is a throwback to when we worshipped the gods that resided in trees and called on them to intercede.
But we don't live in ancient times. That's like saying when atheist Americans today use US currency (which is only officially backed by God: "In God We Trust"), that atheists technically believe in the authority of God.
It may be that the origins of luck may have to do with the belief in gods, but how could people make that leap to belief in gods in the first place?
Secondarily, despite all the time and travails, the vast majority of humanity still believes in god/gods. And over half of humanity believe in THE EXACT SAME GOD.
Of course. Human nature is such that one has to be the boss of the herd in a broader sense. All humans are basically the same so they come to the same conclusions but use different names according to their language.
Everyone else: Well, congratulations. We have decided to address animism and go from there, just as evolutionists tell us they have no idea how life originated but it had to come from natural processes so lets move on from that assumption. The entire point of the OP was that you cann explain why man would posit god as an meaningless explanation when he did not even know what god was or meant. Odd how the Christians understand this and all athesits deny it but refuse to try and solve the conundrum they themselves, created. And don't forget, us Christians are struggling under our brainwashing and closed minded superstitious nonesense whereas you guys are all cold, calculating scientifically minded, full aware logicians. You have solved everything so why not just tell us why men who invented advanced archetecture, math, husbandry and etc invented a meaningless idea to do absolutely nothing and solve absolutely nothing, which is what you say god is ie a big zero.
BINGO! You say All humans are basically the same so they come to the same conclusions.
So, as an example, take Europeans and Native Americans. What you're saying is that despite 10s of thousands of years of physical separation, left to their own devices on opposite sides of the planet, both Europeans and Native Americans had independently come to belief in God/gods!
They came to the same conclusions! In Prehistoric times, everything else in their goddamn lives was an essential, hand-to-mouth existence, but they came to the same conclusions about God/gods. So, the belief in the divine is programmed into us naturally! I never thought of that before!
Leave it to a Swiss atheist, it's a fucking epiphany! Think about it!!!