Professor Ghodsee and superiority of socialist female's orgasms

One of the more troubling signs in the Western academy is the creeping revisionism of everything related to one of the two most repressive and bloody political movements of the XX century - the Soviet style socialism. This post is about an example of modern days feminist "research", based on socialist propaganda, chiefly meant to hail the dubious achievements in the women's liberation and empowerment. Taken as granted by people ready and willing to be duped.

 

The main reason for this post isn't to fight the misinformation and improve the quality of the relevant research - it is mission impossible in the current atmosphere on the campuses. Nope, it is mainly to warn some of my friends from the Western countries who took the misinformation and misinterpretation seriously and believed it.

 

***

 

The woman in the picture - let's call her Dasha, since she will appear in this post a few times - was chosen to grace the masthead of a curious article. The article caused a serious bout of jaw dropping amongst my friends, who, like I, experienced first hand the real life in the socialist heaven. To start with, it hits you between the eyes with its headline:

 

Why Women Had Better Sex Under Socialism

 

The reader is not asked to ponder whether the ladies had indeed better sex under socialism, just made curious why. Obviously the author has decided that the former is a solid fact.

 

The anchor statement in the article: "Women under Communism enjoyed more sexual pleasure." It is chiefly based on a longish video, comparing favorably the wise attitude of the East Germany's communist party towards all matters sexual, including sex education in schools. There is one slight problem with this piece of evidence: it is based on the communist-produced and fairly crude propaganda clips, created, as it was done all over the "socialist camp", with one goal in mind: brainwashing. Usually laughed off by the local citizenry at the time as a sordid pack of lies, it seems to work today, if a professor of Gender and Women's Studies* sees it fit to be used as valid historical document.

 

But I'm not into comparing East and West Germanies, so let's go to the Motherland of that unfortunate social phenomenon, the Soviet Union. Let's take as an example our Dasha and see how she enjoyed all these orgasm-inducing "rights and privileges unknown in liberal democracies at the time" of the socialist heaven that the author of the article so touchingly presents:

 

1. Major state investments in their education and training.

 

Nope, there weren't any special investments for education of the better gender. In case of Dasha, had she decided to throw down her pitchfork and enroll in an university, she would first have to ask for a permission from her collective farm management to travel to an university and be issued an internal passport (you couldn't travel without one, and collective farm workers got a passport only in special cases - a form of slavery incomprehensible in the West, but probably unknown to the Western scientists in the field of Gender and Women's Studies).

 

The next step Dasha would have to make is to pass the entrance exams. No special allowance for gender there, Soviet Union practiced a purely merit-based entrance examination system, the only exception made to favor/disfavor these or other ethnic minorities. Not even mentioning bribes and family connections...

 

And the last but not the least: Dasha's ability to study these 5 years required to get a master's degree were largely dependent on support her parents could possibly muster. Yes, the education was free and Dasha would have probably gotten a monthly stipend, but far from enough to survive. To expect that her collective farm parents would have been able to support Dasha - nah, very unlikely.

 

Dasha's sisters from the city had much better chances to get an university education, but it was too dependent on the financial situation of their parents. Not much difference in that, unless the parents belonged to the "more equal" category or, as it was widely practiced, were stealing something or other.

 

2. Full incorporation of women into the labor force

 

Assuming our Dasha was lucky to become an engineer, a doctor or other graduate of the best educational system in the world (but of course), she might have conceivably been assigned (yes, available jobs were mostly assigned after graduation, with very few exceptions) to an appropriate socialist enterprise. That Dasha's chances to get a position that fit her education were pretty low is besides the point. What is more to the point is that Dasha's chances to get an apartment (or even a room in a communal apartment she could consider her own) were practically nil. It usually took years and years of waiting in line for an available and miserable one or two room flat, and for an unmarried citizen it usually meant years and years in a dormitory with one or more roommates. Kinda puts a stop to one's sexual plans, doesn't it? Taking into account the scarcity of cars and, in case one got a boyfriend with a car, the puny size of the back seat, the difficulty of having any sex, not to mention superior one, are limited to forests, parks, dark alleys, weather or parents obligingly going on a vacation out of the city etc.

 

But, assuming that Dasha succeeded to come through all this unscathed, without a social disease (rampant in the place at the time), avoided falling into the hands of a pimp (yep, even in the socialist motherland there were quite a few of them) and got happily married, her aspirations, as far as sex is concerned, might still remain unfulfilled. If her hubby didn't belong to the "more equal" or otherwise financially well to do family, their joint effort to bring enough money to feed the young family, their time spent in the endless queues for food and other necessary items, their daily exhaustion etc... the going joke was that the best birth control instrument is the engineer's salary, which is completely true. Of course, you might notice, birth control and sex are not one and the same. True, but take into account the scarcity of the former...

 

In short, engineer Dasha wasn't too much into sex, not after her honeymoon.

 

3. Generous maternity leave allowances

 

Yep. Maternity leave there was and it was growing with time, up to three years at the end of USSR, if my memory is serving me right. The only catch was that the number of paid months was limited to 4 (four). So most of the women never used the generosity of unpaid leave: to survive on one salary - if there was a husband, of course - was practically impossible. Another one of the Soviet myths fit for brainwashing the Western starry-eyed sympathizers.

 

4. Quaranteed free child care.

 

That guarantee, as much of what was written in the Soviet constitution (indeed, on paper, a wondrous document, most of it fiction, of course) isn't worth the paper - even that of NYT, where the article is printed. First of all, the available places in kindergartens were scarce, especially if you were a medium/big city dweller. Even when available, it frequently meant a long bus ride from one's home to the kindergarten - only adding to that exhaustion at the end of the day. And even if you got to be a lucky parent with a place in the kindergarten: the average number of days your kid would have spent there was about half of the planned, due to incessant illnesses. And the cases where, for instance, the kindergarten staff will keep the windows open during the wintertime, to make more kids sick, were very frequent as well...

 

Add to all of the above the rampant alcoholism, the habitual wife beating, the cramped living conditions with large families squeezed in one or two rooms - yep, all that surely encouraged exquisite sex. Oh well.

 

As any Soviet citizen with brain a bit larger than that of hamster will tell you: find a person who waxes lyrically about his/her life (sex life included) under the Soviet regime, and I'll show you a person of privilege, not a regular Joe the Public.

 

And of course I just have to bring up this exquisite passage from the article:

Consider Ana Durcheva from Bulgaria, who was 65 when I first met her in 2011. Having lived her first 43 years under Communism, she often complained that the new free market hindered Bulgarians’ ability to develop healthy amorous relationships.

The hilarious quote caused me a few laughs. I am not disclosing my age, but I still could compare my amorous relationships before and after my 43. There simply ain't any comparison, you are totally right, Ana, but I am sure it is not because of the social changes Bulgaria underwent. The weather was better back then too...

 

Dasha on the collective farm

 

But why have we, indeed, decided to send our Dasha off to the big city to study? What's the reason behind it? Wouldn't she be better off and happier where she is - shoveling hay with that pitchfork? Waking up at 4:00 AM to feed the livestock, then to the fields with her instrument of true socialist labor (as depicted). Six days a week at least, covered by chigger bites and other signs of the wildlife's attention on her body?

 

We should, possibly, mention that the sanitary conditions at Dasha's accommodations, such as lack of running water, the ubiquitous outhouse, the communal bathhouse once a week etc. - all these were hardly conducive to sexual desires, not to mention deeds. But Dasha was young and where there is a will, there is a way. After all, it is not out of the question that her BF got a few rubbers when the supplies truck visited the collective farm's grocery last week. And he might have even found a way to wash up... but let's not fantasize too much.

 

And I don't even want to go into unplanned pregnancy and the consequences thereof... too sad.

 

Conclusion

 

When I read sentences like these:

Although gender wage disparities and labor segregation persisted, and although the Communists never fully reformed domestic patriarchy, Communist women enjoyed a degree of self-sufficiency that few Western women could have imagined. Eastern bloc women did not need to marry, or have sex, for money.

and when I read the work based on quotes from socialist era "sexologists" and references to August Bebel, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, I feel not just a temporal displacement (am I forced to listen to an interminable lecture by a party chieftain again?) but dread. Dread for the youngsters undergoing all this brainwashing by "progressive" professors of Gender and Women's Studies and similar exalted sciences.

 

Because the seeds these professors sow have already set roots and we see the results on the streets, where jobless (thanks to their useless diplomas) SJWs, Occupiers, Antifa and similar victims of miseducation, are paving the way to the bright socialist future.

 

Where some of us have already been once.

 

***

 

(*) About the author of the article: Kristen R. Ghodsee (born April 26, 1970) is an American ethnographer and a Professor of Gender and Women's Studies at Bowdoin College. Also - Professor of Slavic Languages and Literatures in at the University of Pennsylvania, according to this.

 

It is interesting to notice that under the rubric "Criticism" there appears the following statement:

In a 2014 essay in the European Journal of Women’s Studies, philosopher Nanette Funk included Ghodsee among a handful of “Revisionist Feminist Scholars” who uncritically tout the achievements of communist era women’s organizations, ignoring the oppressive nature of authoritarian regimes in Eastern Europe.

Bullseye.

 

But the trains run on time, right, professor Ghodsee?

 

Original post.

Comments

Ari Silverstein Added Sep 14, 2017 - 8:21am
Because communism and socialism never produce the desired outcome, to perpetuate the myth things are going swimmingly, these countries all need propaganda.  Say what you like about America, our media is free to criticize and operates independently from the state.  There isn’t much by way of state sponsored propaganda or state controlled media.  However, as a regime becomes more socialistic/repressive the more propaganda is needed to continue the lie that socialism is working.  The example you bring to light in this article proves this, or simply look at North Korean television. 
Simply Jews Added Sep 14, 2017 - 9:06am
Yes, that's true. My problem is that, in spite of the openness of the media, the universities are in thrall to the socialist propaganda. The old demons we all have thought dead or dying are raising their heads.
 
Apparently we are not learning anything from history.
Tamara Wilhite Added Sep 14, 2017 - 12:47pm
Liberals whitewash Communism because that is what they want to implement. Social Justice is communitarianism revamped so that instead of the poor versus the rich it is endless fighting between various demographic groups who can never really understand each other and need a big nanny state to take care of all the oppressed people, make it fair and control everything.
Simply Jews Added Sep 14, 2017 - 12:56pm
If only they knew how it really looks.
Billy Roper Added Sep 14, 2017 - 1:09pm
Even the Holodomor is being downplayed or flushed down the memory hole.
Simply Jews Added Sep 14, 2017 - 1:21pm
Yes, that too.
Henry Ortiz Added Sep 14, 2017 - 3:01pm
Great article, let's see who read it and the comments. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Sep 14, 2017 - 6:07pm
Sounds like the US. Maybe a kid from a Detroit ghetto could sympathize with it ? Or one from a Paris, Brussels....name the ghettos arou^nd the world ;-)
 
And: I refrain to talk about socialism once and for all. It makes no sense here.
Leroy Added Sep 14, 2017 - 6:55pm
It was a good glimpse into Soviet life.  Now I know what I have been missing...not much.
 
We seem doomed to repeat the failures of the past.  Communism would have worked only if it was more pure, blah, blah, blah.
John G Added Sep 14, 2017 - 9:33pm
Yes, Russia was nirvana prior to 1917.
Not to mention the 1990s under Jeffrey Sachs and the Harvard boys.
John G Added Sep 14, 2017 - 9:37pm
The bloodiest political movement of the last 3 or 4 centuries by far is capitalism.
BTW we have unemployment because of poor government fiscal policy under capitalism, not bad course choices by students.
Saint George Added Sep 14, 2017 - 11:42pm
For number of dead, maimed, starved, incarcerated, uprooted, and dislocated, you can't beat any of the socialist nations in the 20th century; whether the international socialism of the left (Soviet Union, Maoist China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Castro's Cuba) or the national socialism of Hitler Germany. Over 100 million lives destroyed in the name of "social justice" and "equality."
 
I'm happy to post actual numbers if anyone wants to see them — but is that really necessary at this point? Study a little history and you'll find these numbers are easily available and vetted by many historians.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 1:30am
Capitalism Communism Politics What has killed more people: communism or capitalism?
target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Study: U.S. regime has killed 20-30 million people since World War Two -- Sott.net
The above piece, though well researched, is very conservative.
Even as we speak, Papuans are being killed, dispossessed, repressed for benefit of multinational mega corporations in target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Papua conflict. Some rights organizations put the last 2-3 years' tally to ~150,000. Have you heard about that? Not at all.
Each of the puppet dictators backed by the West in past ~60 years, have tens to hundreds of thousands of directly killed people in their name at the minimum. South America, Africa. Even the first dictator of South Korea (yes, the free one) had 'fixed' 3 million people. Killed, just outright. Have you heard about that? No...
The headcount tally of African warlords which multinational corporations or their governments backed, the 'vanished' people in South America under western and corporate backed dictatorships themselves would come up to a shocking count, leave aside those who died due to bad conditions similar to Great Depression in US - except these conditions under such capitalist dictatorships were a constant.
The list, deeds and characters of some of African dictators backed by capitalism (aka west, in this context) are so crazy that it defies description - there were even cannibals among them.
target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Friendly dictators
None of the people killed by these is considered to have been killed by capitalism.
 
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 2:27am
(Yawn)
 
Click on JG's link to the Papua New Guinea article in Wikipedia and search for the words "capitalism" (zero hits), "multi-national" (zero hits), "corporation" (1 hit: a footnote reference), and "west" (51 hits, none of which say anything about an evil "west" supporting genocide.
 
JG simply invented it all. He sees a datum point (a dot) in one corner, and then sees a different datum point (another dot) in some other corner, and then assumes — for no good reason whatsoever, and with no supporting evidence — that the data points are "connected"; so he goes about "connecting dots" that have nothing to do with one another, or are not linked in any cause-and-effect kind of relation.
 
He's a professor at a university? I hope to God his students demanded their money back — they were robbed.
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 2:31am
Even the Holodomor is being downplayed
 
LOLzZ! 
 
Silly Billy denies the Holocaust but believes in the Holodomor despite the fact that both crimes have exactly the same kind of historical evidence available to any intellectually honest researcher.
Simply Jews Added Sep 15, 2017 - 3:40am
"The bloodiest political movement of the last 3 or 4 centuries by far is capitalism."
 
Just because it lasted longer, the XX century was enough of a show to persuade even the most ardent supporters of socialism. The only problem that this memory doesn't seem to last, as it is obvious in the case described. And it seems that you too, John G., suffer from the same nostalgia.

"BTW we have unemployment because of poor government fiscal policy under capitalism, not bad course choices by students."
 
Kindly explain to us all how it is relevant to the subject of that post?
Simply Jews Added Sep 15, 2017 - 3:44am
Saint George,
 
Holodomor is indeed being downplayed, Billy is right here, but then so are all the other Stalin's mass murder initiatives. 
Thanks to you, I've looked into Billy a bit. Hmm...
 
 
Simply Jews Added Sep 15, 2017 - 3:46am
"Yes, Russia was nirvana prior to 1917."
Compared to the bloodbath that followed 1917, it really was.
Or are you going to challenge this statement too?
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 3:48am
The two world wars were capitalist squabbles. The Nazis and the Imperial Japanese were capitalists. Fascism is a capitalist phenomenon.
Until the USA came along there never was a killing machine in human history like the British empire.
 
Kindly explain to us all how it is relevant to the subject of that post?
Because the seeds these professors sow have already set roots and we see the results on the streets, where jobless (thanks to their useless diplomas)
 
Simply Jews Added Sep 15, 2017 - 3:55am
"Because the seeds these professors sow have already set roots and we see the results on the streets, where jobless (thanks to their useless diplomas)"
Anything wrong with this statement, professor? Interestingly, you have launched here a direct attack against capitalism, never touching upon anything relevant to the post itself.
Interesting debating technique. 
 
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:13am
Pathetic. You asked, I answered.
That's how it goes.
Is capitalism sacrosanct somehow?
Your shitty little country practiced Marxist economics to get established , silly girl.
Then you got neoliberalism to the point where you have the most unequal developed society on earth and the CIA believes Israel will collapse and disappear by 2030.
One can only hope.
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:20am
Re: World War I and World War II as capitalist squabbles:
 
Old conspiracy-cult paranoia that has been debunked hundreds of times. Not worth wasting time on yet again.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:22am
New Rule – Saint George and John G are no longer allowed to communicate to each other.  Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension. 
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:28am
Interesting debating technique.
 
The radical left doesn't debate and never has. Their modus operandi is to take pot shots at someone or something and then hide under a rock, similar to a linguistic "drive-by shooting."
 
The technique is advocated by "community organizer" guru, Saul Alinsky, in his book "Rules for Radicals."
 
Barack Hussein Obama was greatly influenced by Alinsky, as was Hillary Clinton, who wrote her senior year dissertation on Alinsky when she was an undergrad at Wellesley. You can even find it online at this link.
Simply Jews Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:32am
"One can only hope."
 
BDS' real face, thanks for clarifying, professor. Why don't you start all your comments with this oh so progressive and humane statement? To make yourself clear.
 
"Pathetic. You asked, I answered.
That's how it goes."
You forgot to answer the main question: what does capitalism have to do with the subject of that post. As usual, avoiding direct answers to direct questions. 
 
"Is capitalism sacrosanct somehow?"
??? 
 
"Your shitty little country practiced Marxist economics to get established , silly girl."
 
Not, strictly speaking, true, but again - what does it have to do with that post? You can't be all that moronic, professor, carping about your subject of choice ("shitty little country " and capitalism) on any available thread. Or could you?
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:35am
Hasbara Troll attributes

Supreme point of view
The Hasbara troll knows best
Condescending & Patronising
Socialist (Smart and 'caring')
Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
Internet experts
Narcissistic
Provocative
Dis-ruptive
Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
Control freaks
Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
'Moral' Guardians
Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
Adept with social networks well trained on IT
Simply Jews Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:42am
The rubber stamp in action. How many threads have you blessed with this one? Very frisky today... and how does it relate to the thread? 
I know I am asking this more than once, but so far no answer was forthcoming. Do make an effort and explain, professor.
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:50am
Funny how some anti-Semites in this thread quote works by Israeli "New Historian" Benny Morris. It turns out that Benny Morris has since recanted his revisionism and retreated from his previous positions on Israeli history. See:
 
http://jcpa.org/article/exposing-how-post-zionists-manipulate-history/
[begin excerpt]
"The person who laid the foundation for historical post-Zionism, Benny Morris, is also the one who undermined it in bringing the most serious challenge to its intellectual integrity. Morris still appears unable to say “I was wrong” and express regret for helping build the intellectual basis for the campaign against Israel and Zionism. Instead of exposing his own distortions and fallacies, he says he has found new documents in the Israeli archives that gave him a new perspective on the conflict. Reading his new interpretation of the same events makes it clear how the New Historians – at best – wrote history out of context, completely detached from the reality of its origins. In most cases they engaged in a deliberate falsification and used the “grand lie” technique against Israel.
 
Then suddenly, about twenty years later, Morris discovered that the Arabs had declared a jihad against Zionism already back in the 1930s. He explains his new approach as stemming from the opening of archives, including the IDF’s archive, which was closed to researchers previously. He also adds that “in the current book [1948] I placed the refugee problem within the overall context of the War of Independence,” and with the help of recent studies, “I tried to present a new and comprehensive description of the war, and primarily of the connections between the military processes and the diplomatic processes.”[23]
 
A new description?  The exact opposite, in fact. His two most recent books, 1948 and One State, Two States, which were released over the past two years, completely contradict his arguments and the factual basis for his revolutionary historical approach. Morris returns to what was so detested by the New Historians, or as they put it: the canonical version of the official Zionist narrative. His new books demolish all the premises and conclusions of the New Historians. He feels no need to apologize for presenting a sharp indictment of all of post-Zionism, claiming that “historians tended to belittle the importance of the religious rhetoric during the war” and the central role of “religious motivation.” This is exactly the omission committed by Morris in his previous books. The dismissal of the threats of jihad was intentional and critical for those who set out to write the “new” narrative and to turn the Nakba into the Palestinian “Holocaust.”
 
The jihad was apparent to all in the existing literature since 1948: threats of annihilation were heard from all Arab sides and even from the dais of the United Nations in 1947 and 1948. As noted, the mufti of Jerusalem, al-Husseini, repeated such threats over and over again; and religious scholars in Cairo issued an official manifesto calling for jihad two days after the partition resolution was passed in November 1947. The translation of the religious decree into military action was the invasion of the Arab armies, which were called the Arab Liberation Army and the Jihad al-Mukades (Holy War) Army.
 
On the day that Israel declared its independence, Arab League secretary-general Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha declared a holy war. He said, “This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.”[24] Azzam Pasha, who was the leading spokesperson of all Arab states, had been similarly clear and violent in opposing the partition resolution: “The partition line will be nothing but a line of fire and blood.”[25] Al-Husseini stated, “I declare a holy war, my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!”[26]
 
Suddenly, and consistently, Morris renounces the post-Zionist narrative in numerous articles, interviews, and lectures, and presents his new position in scholarly books. Indeed, Morris informs his readers that his previous books missed the historical context of the 1948 War, which was a jihadi onslaught by the Muslim world against the Jewish community in Palestine. From the start Morris was little embarrassed, telling The Guardian in 2002: “The rumour that I have undergone a brain transplant is (as far as I can remember) unfounded – or at least premature.  But my thinking about the current Middle East crisis and its protagonists has in fact radically changed during the past two years.”[27]
 
In his own testimony, Morris explains that a new historical
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:51am
 http://jcpa.org/article/exposing-how-post-zionists-manipulate-history/
[continue excerpt]
 
"In his own testimony, Morris explains that a new historical awareness about Arab sources of rage, hatred, and anti-Semitism led him to a new reading of the 1948 war. He is even able to document the intellectual transplant surgery he was undergoing:


My turning point began after 2000. I wasn’t a great optimist even before that. True, I always voted Labor or Meretz or Sheli [a dovish party of the late 1970s], and in 1988 I refused to serve in the territories and was jailed for it, but I always doubted the intentions of the Palestinians. The events of Camp David and what followed in their wake turned the doubt into certainty. When the Palestinians rejected the proposal of [Prime Minister Ehud] Barak in July 2000 and the Clinton proposal in December 2000, I understood that they are unwilling to accept the two-state solution. They want it all. Lod and Acre and Jaffa.[28]


Morris goes further in his interview and explains – as was unknown in his previous books and is unheard of in politically correct circles – that there is a “deep problem in Islam.” It is a world in which “life doesn’t have the same value it does in the West.” The Arabs belong to a “tribal culture” in which “revenge” plays a “central part” within a society so lacking in “moral inhibitions” that “if it obtains chemical or biological or atomic weapons, it will use them.”
[end excerpt]
Simply Jews Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:58am
Saint George,
 
Right as you are, you are playing into the hands of a certain individual who is doing his level trolling best to derail any thread into a battle against his hated Zionists. Don't feed trolls is the best advice I can give at this point.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:00pm
Great article. I keep saying it over and over again. If the US fucks up and becomes socialist, so will the rest of the world.
It's astonishing how nobody heeds the warnings. I shout across the big pond and tell you that David Horowitz is right in saying that the Democratic Party has completely gone off the rails and has radicalized. They dehumanize their enemies!
You can easily shrug off these phony Nazi accusations but for Eastern Germans they were the last thing people heard before they were thrown into prison. In later stages the imprisonment was replaced by what was called Zersetzung, a systematic psychoterror based on stasi information about the victims' psychological vulnerabilities.
The socialists do the same all over the world. Maduro also called the protesters fascists. If you make people believe that all your political opponents are out there to kill somebody, people will become violent.
And the abject whitewashing that you talk about is a huge indicator that people in fact do further radicalize.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 5:36pm
The Democratic Party is full of Republicans. If you think Clinton, Obama etc are radical leftists you need to check your political compass and your morality.
You've crossed into fascism.
There are decidedly fascists opposing the Maduro government and yes, they are killing people.
You don't seem to like facts very much for someone so concerned with 'ideologies'.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 15, 2017 - 5:58pm
John G: I take it that you try to address me. Would you mind to name my name when you do so?
Hilary Clinton is a radical, she is not your exact brand of leftism, but she is demonizing her opponents in a way that Trump has never done it. She insinuated constantly that his election would lead to a dictatorship and persecution, and that his supporters are out there to hurt people. Don't think that she believed it.She was at his wedding. Their daughters were close friends. So she just lied her a$$ off to create a violent movement.
From the day of the election onwards, day after day people were in the streets to riot because she whipped them up. This is radicalism.
I'm not happy about Trump's Afghanistan troop surge either. There are just as many (sensible) pacifists on the right as there are on the left. If he is scolded for his military activity it is by the likes of Ann Coulter (who used to be a hawk but isn't anymore).
And by the way, don't even try to say that the fascists were on the political right. They never said they were. They called themselves socialists. And while they did not play it the same way like Mao, Stalin and others, a lot of their ideas did derive from Marx' disciples and are only preserved by the left these days.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 6:03pm
I'm not going to bother with someone that claims fascism is socialism. Language has to mean something and when you change the meanings of words in such an Orwellian fashion, normal conversation is not possible.
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are capitalists.
The meanings of left and right seem completely alien to you.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 15, 2017 - 6:15pm
John G: Yes, you are just so above all conversation.  National socialism had a lot of ideas straight from Marx. They believed in overcoming the class society. They proclaimed that Marx' capitalist class was the 'parasitic' Jews. Even Marx himself, who was an ethnic Jew, said that the Jew has created the system which in his words 'created Jews', i.e. capitalists.
They believed to be the revolution. The party was called National Socialist Workers' Party. There are a thousand things, but because you are propagandized and can't read (much of) Marx' and the Nazi dreck in the original you are confused.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:10pm
Utter drivel.
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:25pm
The Republican Party is full of Democrats. They're called "R.I.N.O.s", or "Republicans In Name Only."
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:37pm
you are confused.
Perhaps you could inform us as to what left and right mean in political-economic terms?
Do you even know what the differences are between socialism and capitalism?
Until you do that you are just playing word games and identity politics.
 
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:58pm
Anyone who has taken an intro course in basic Econ soon understands the differences between capitalism and socialism. After that, the only excuse for not knowing the differences is denial.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 8:34pm
New Rule – Saint George and John G are no longer allowed to communicate to each other.  Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension. 
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 11:33pm
Rider to New Rule — Whiners should leave or mature.
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 2:21am
Yes, Russia was nirvana prior to 1917."
Compared to the bloodbath that followed 1917, it really was.
Or are you going to challenge this statement too?
You can't be serious. 
What sort of absurd liar are you?
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 16, 2017 - 2:27am
John G: I don't know if I want to waste time with explanations if you don't reflect on them and call it drivel instead. But you are not the only who reads here and I will be kind.
 
The political terms left and right emerged during the French Revolution. Ideas or milieus that where represented by the parliamentarians who set left or right in the National Assembly where identified as left and right. Over the course of history many different people with different ideas have sat on the left and right of the parliaments. Across the nations the sitting order were often aligned with one another. I say often because in some places, most notably in the Islamic world, they sit in reverse to the western parliamentary sitting order.
 
Capitalism is a smear word invented by Karl Marx to label everything he didn't like. I know I could go into detail in how he sees the economy and the oppressive class and blabla but in a nutshell it really boils down to an invective. People who oppose socialists have adopted the smear and use it themselves to describe what they see in the absence of a socialist dictatorship: a market, choices of goods, prosperity, privacy, freedom of speech, and so on. I think its not wise to use the word capitalism at all and I tend to avoid it.
 
Identity politics has come to mean that the most oppressed class is seen as some ethnicity, religion, or gender identity. It shows how socialism like any movement changes. In fact, although the idea really comes from this corner, I think the identity politics mongerer have departed from socialism. They still use the problematic tactics, but they left.
 
What do I mean by 'they left'? They don't call themselves socialists, they call themselves liberals or progressives. The large majority of those who identify as socialists, have a hard time with it. You could literally see how Bernie Sanders struggled in the toxic climate the Clintonites created to actually pretend he was all over the identity stuff. He couldn't care less!
 
Now, you have meant something different with identity politics and I'm not sure what it is, but it shows that words have a different meaning in a context. You can go along and say that socialism is the control of productive means by the workers. The common understanding in the English language, however, is that socialism is what people do and say who claim to be socialists. This is how any movement or mindset is defined. And if people feel expelled from a social movement it usually is that their own personal views have evolved and that the movement has changed. You wrote once that you come from the left but you don't identify as such. So you agree that BY AND LARGE something has changed in the majority of the left and maybe also in your own views.
Simply Jews Added Sep 16, 2017 - 2:37am
"are you going to challenge this statement?"
 
So challenge it or go away. Attacking me as a liar isn't a response, troll.
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 2:39am
Well, you're welcome to demonstrate how good Russia was in the lead up to the revolution.
What's the problem?
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 2:44am
Goldstein. Capitalism is a smear word invented by Karl Marx to label everything he didn't like. I know I could go into detail in how he sees the economy and the oppressive class and blabla but in a nutshell it really boils down to an invective. 
Oh FFS.
You wrote once that you come from the left but you don't identify as such.
No I didn't. 
The common understanding in the English language, however, is that socialism is what people do and say who claim to be socialists. 
This is just drivel. Words that mean nothing.
I think your understanding of English is so deficient that you are unable to contribute anything much.
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 2:50am
Goldstein. I asked you for your views on the political economic distinctions between capitalism (the right) and socialism (the left).
Instead you came back with more drivel over pathetic identity politics issues.
You seem to be little more than a zombie Euro fascist. And no, fascists are right wingers you idiot.
Simply Jews Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:01am
"Well, you're welcome to demonstrate how good Russia was in the lead up to the revolution."
 
This is definitely not what I said. Are you a total imbecile, John, I wonder? I repeat:
 
"Compared to the bloodbath that followed 1917, it really was." Nirvana, that is.
 
Are you really fucking going to challenge this statement? 
I disbelieve my eyes.
 
Not only are you a BDS shill, conspiracy theories nutjob and a consistent troll, you are also a Stalinist? 
 
What next? Have you a warm place in your heart for the Nazis too?
Let it all out, do not hide your treasures of love.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:01am
John G: You are completely unable to reflect on what I say and make an argument. You call names or you call everything drivel. You can't address the CONTENT of what people say to you. Never! It does not even make sense to take it personal because everybody says that you are unable to make a point and that you contribute nothing but invectives. It's pathetic.
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:10am
I've reflected on what you said, numbnuts. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I didn't read it. I read it. It's nonsense.
You haven't reflected on what Ive said. Where's the economics?
That makes you a hypocrite.
Fascist retard.
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:13am
Oh yeah a Stalinist AND a nazi!!!!!
You zionist baby murderers sure are hilarious.
Your ideology is almost identical to the Nazis, sweetheart.
Zionism is racism.
Simply Jews Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:16am
OK, here it goes. From now on you are joining your buddy Dannl in exile - from my posts at least. 
Bye, moron.
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:17am
See you, nazi.
Simply Jews Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:24am
Not if I see you first. But you would have to think about it...
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:25am
Goldstein, if you were a genuine poster you wouldn't attribute invented comments to other posters.
What sort of dickhead does that?
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:36am
John G: You asked for the difference between left, right, socialism and capitalism. I wrote a long post to give you the definitions. You may contest them, but you chose not to. I don't give you the definitions you want to hear. I don't abide to Marx' ideology. I define the words as I see them used in the real world. Why would I go into your text books, use your vocabulary and so on if I don't do the same with Scientologist or other strange mindsets? I am NOT a Marxists!
Do you even know what the word hypocrisy means? Can you define it and show that I meet your definition?
 
Simply Jews: I am short of ignoring John as well, if he does not change his conduct. We are then joining the ranks of most people here. If John does not change and I drop out, St George will be the only one to address him and he may also stop it at some point. John, if he doesn't change, will go the way of all trolls.
John G Added Sep 16, 2017 - 3:57am
 I wrote a long post to give you the definitions. 
You wrote a bunch of identity politics guff. No economics. No politics.
You are shallow and superficial. And your English is woefully inadequate.
Simply Jews Added Sep 16, 2017 - 4:09am
@ Benjamin,
I am sorry that you wouldn't be able to continue this dialog with John G. I've had enough of his unending crapola and will delete any further comments by him - on my threads, of course, only.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 16, 2017 - 4:25am
Simply Jews: It's alright. Delete him!
 
It is really weird. I'm usually a free speech fanatic. WB is not important enough to protect John's voice here. I find it still disturbing what he represents because I see it in many places. Invectives instead of dialogue. The concept of finding a common ground does not exist. Even the basics of putting an idea into an argument are absent. The actual content of what the dialogue partner says is not addressed. And as a consequence there is an utter lack of introspection and a good deal of fanatism.
 
BTW I think he made his professorship up. He may have taught music or so, but I think he made it up.
Simply Jews Added Sep 16, 2017 - 4:30am
On another thread (I think) he denied being a professor, so I really wouldn't know.
The funny thing is that right now I am reading a CNN piece of Macedonian fake news producers and sock puppets, so I've started to wonder about John G. Nah... he is not of that calibre.
 
http://money.cnn.com/interactive/media/the-macedonia-story/
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 16, 2017 - 4:37am
Simply Jews: No, we have professional commentators in German news outlets and he is not that kind of person. I'm also pretty sure that he once said that he 'came from the left', now he denies it. I wouldn't search for it, so he has never said it. Whatever.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 16, 2017 - 4:46am
Simply Jews: Just saw the article. It is probably a fake news story itself. If you have never heard of these news stories they did not influence the election. Who would pay for it? The trashy Trump supporters who were lose on facts and had some influence where in the InfoWars Cloud and not in Macedonia.
Simply Jews Added Sep 16, 2017 - 4:53am
"Who would pay for it?"
Exactly, this question followed me while reading this one.