We Have the Power

We Have the Power
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Most people are afraid to wield power.  That's my experience.  Here's an example.  In the US, the House of Representatives represents the people.  It was impractical in the days of old for everyone to represent themselves.  It made sense to elect our representatives to represent us in our absence.  Today, the technology exists such that everyone could represent themselves.  Anytime I propose this idea, it is met with opposition.  I've never had a single person agree, even in principle.  The response has always been something like, "Oh.  No.  We don't want to do anything like that."  There is a notion that we need someone to represent us.  We can do it ourselves.  We are afraid of our own power.  

That brings me to Writer Beat.  Quite often, contributors go the host of this site and complain about others and demand that something is done, that she moderate the site.  Proposals for moderators have been made.  It is likely true that the vulgarity and vitriol discourage many contributor and potential contributors.  Is that what is holding back Writer Beat?  In my opinion, no.

What is holding back Writer Beat is ourselves, our refusal to use the power granted to us by our gracious host to control our own articles.  We are the moderator of our articles.  We are the ones holding Writer Beat back.

Why do we not use our power to control the integrity of our articles?  Judging from comments here is why I believe that we don't:

1.They believe in free speech.  Deleting someone's comment is a violation of their free speech.
2. Leaving the comments shows everyone the vulgar nature of the commenter and, therefore, serves a purpose.
3. They thrive on it.  They like the ruckus that it causes.

Some have used their power recently.  I applaud them.  Some use it to silence those who disagree and contradict them.  They don't want discussion.  I've had a number of my comments deleted because the author did not agree with what I said or that they refuse to admit they were wrong and had to remove all evidence to the contrary.  They want to be coddled by the group and sing Kumbaya.  I'm okay with that.  There is nothing wrong with controlling the message.  I'm free to walk away.  I won't waste my time with them in the future.


It seems that for just about every article today, there are two commenters hell bent on silencing each other.  They call each other names like school children.  "No. He started it."  "No. You started it."  Most of us are adults and find such exchanges childish.  I don't have to name names.  You know who they are.  One makes an obnoxious comment and the other calls him an arse wipe.  I've seen many good discussions ruined by this dynamic duo.  I've seen better behavior in two-year olds.

If you care about the integrity of your article and value the discussion and comments of your commenters, it makes sense to delete the offensive comments.  Yes.  We have freedom of speech.  We also have the freedom from speech.  We don't have to read articles that offend us or comment on them.  As authors, we don't have to tolerate the offensive comments that detract from the discussion.  You are not violating anyone's free speech by deleting offensive comments.  You are protecting your free speech.  You are controlling the integrity of your articles for the people who care enough to provide you with feedback and discussion.  Show some respect to them.  There can be some merit in leaving comments, but, in general, the best course of action is just to delete it.  They may protest that you are violating their free speech.  Delete that too.  Don't bother to explain.  Don't apologize.  Don't give them voice.  Sooner or later, they won't waste their time.  Maybe they avoid your articles in the future.  Mission accomplished.  Your articles will be more readable and enjoyable.

Of course, they have the freedom to create their own article condemning you.  If it bothers you, don't read it.  Don't let it bother you.

I'm grateful to our hosts for giving us the power to moderate our articles.  She has entrusted us with the power.  I am inspired by her commitment to free speech and her refusal to moderate.  She is committed to showing no bias and does so admirably despite the calls to do otherwise by those who refuse to use their power.  Writer Beat is indeed a unique website.

Comments

Autumn Cote Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:24am
It’s very infrequent (when compared to those that say nothing) that someone complains to me about the behavior of others.  If anything, I get more complaints from people about the fact we provide authors the ability to delete comments they don’t like. 
 
As for me, I don’t applaud anyone that uses the comment delete button.  For the three reasons stated in this article (and a few others), I think authors in receipt of inappropriate comments should leave them up there.  In addition, I do think it’s a violation of free speech for authors to have the power to delete comments they deem inappropriate.  Let’s not forget, it’s not fair to the commenter that the author gets to serve as judge and jury on what constitutes an inappropriate comment.  The reason I allow the feature is because I have no interest in serving as moderator for every discussion and one could make the argument that the comment thread in each article is the personal property of the author.  Seeing that it’s an author’s personal property, he can choose to moderate it however he pleases. 
 
Knowing my thoughts on this matter, which seems almost the opposite of what you thought my opinion was (IMHO), does it change your position?
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:24am
If you are aiming this at me, I'm not stalking Corey. He is stalking me.
Further, I did exactly what Autumn asked because I was sick and tired of the crap.
But Autumn reneged on her side.
People like like and Jackson delete comments because you're dishonest and you can't sustain your bigotry through rational argument.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:34am
John,
Please show me evidence of you ignoring Saint George (the participant I believe you call Corey) and I will do something about his attacks.  Until then, you’re just being a hypocrite. 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:18am
Freedom. 
 
Everyone's freedom exists at the same time.
 
That guy over there's freedom is neither greater or less than that other guy's across the street. 
 
Sometimes a harsh response to knobs, their knob ideas, and ignorance is called for.
 
WB has it's share of knobs. Even the ones that chase those they don't like around to every article posting the same cut and pasted knobby nonsense are and should be free to do so especially because they are so knobish. 
 
Freedom is often uncomfortable. The alternative is many magnitudes worse.
 
Popular speech by it's very nature doesn't need protection. Unpopular speech requires everyone to grow the fuck up.
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:29am
No Autumn, clearly I can't prove a negative. As you know, I ignored him for close to a fortnight through all his vile abuse. The references to my mother being a Turkish whore etc etc etc etc etc.
You know exactly what I'm talking about.
I published some articles that you also suggested.
When it came to the crunch though you tried to make me calling Jeanne naive the same level of 'abuse' as Corey's faecal, bestial, paedophilia references.
No Autumn, this is about (I think political) bias. There are two very different standards at work here.
The right can don whatever the hell it likes including some of the most vile racism, holocaust denial, accusations of paedophilia, attacks on the families of other posters etc literally anything.
But how dare a leftist question one of those fascist nutters? Or call someone naive? Or point out that calling for the killing of a quarter of the world's population are the words of a genocidal nut job?
 
I don't chase Corey all over the board and make a vile abusive comment about his mother on every single post he makes.
But that is what he is doing to mine.
 
I'm not asking for censorship. But this stalking and the type of abuse is detrimental to the boards working and it certainly isn't going to bring you contributors or readers.
 
His behaviour is as ridiculous as it is vile.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:45am
For what it's worth many of those here on WB elicit well deserved harshness. Unfortunately, for me, the negativity herein only serves to make me feel like shit after I respond vehemently to it. Perhaps others react similarly and that drives them away. 
Flying Junior Added Sep 12, 2017 - 2:12am
Nice article and commentary Leroy.  You're a good man to support Autumn.  It is a privilege to be associated with Writer Beat.  I wish I could take the time to produce some better writing myself.  I had a great idea last fall.  But I had to retype my source material from a book copyrighted in 1942, and I ended up shelving the project.  I end up looking to others for entertainment.  I might be a more valuable member of the commentariat than I am, but let's face it.  There are some serious right-wing crazies on this site.  There is nothing that I can say to them.
 
Autumn,
 
In defense of John's complaint...  Believe me, I don't very much appreciate his contributions very often.  But as far as the lady who reposted and attributed the informative article about SSI.  Saint George just used the thread as yet another opportunity to pick a fight with John.  He jumped in with the enmity.  Even Jackson has asked him to stop.  Jackson is the worst type of coward.  He deletes your comment and then leaves his own comment to denigrate you.  But yeah.  Let people say what they will. 
 
It's a damn shame that my two buddies, Octopus and Infidel753 were so horrified by this site that they bailed almost immediately. Octopus took one look and never came back.  Infidel lasted about one week.  It is interesting.  Where else could I talk to an American Nazi?
john guzlowski Added Sep 12, 2017 - 6:53am
On this site, I've been called a Jew.  My mother has been called a whore.  my father a liar.  I've been on similar sites in the past, even published on salon.com and never heard so many personal attacks.
 
This is a site that encourages that kind of talk.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 12, 2017 - 7:46am
To Flying Junior and John Guzlowski,
I think Writer Beat is evidence of what free speech looks like when it isn’t moderated, censored or filtered to your liking.  I agree that at times it’s harsh and nasty, but I prefer it to all other websites by a wide margin.  I know, I'm a little biased.  
 
To John G,
All one needs to do is peruse your comment history to learn that I'm right.  
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:34am
"Knowing my thoughts on this matter, which seems almost the opposite of what you thought my opinion was (IMHO), does it change your position?"
 
Thanks for clarifying your opinion on that.  I never considered your opinion on whether or not you approved of the use of the delete function. But, if I had, you're probably right; I would have assumed that you would prefer us to moderate our own articles.  Does it change my opinion?  Not the least.  It's getting to the point to where I no longer look forward to reading the comments.
 
We all are subject to misunderstandings and sometimes lash out.  I don't have a big issue with that.  It is when there is continually bickering.  You just need to break it up.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:36am
"If you are aiming this at me, I'm not stalking Corey. He is stalking me.
Further, I did exactly what Autumn asked because I was sick and tired of the crap."
 
I'm not going to name names here. 
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:39am
"Everyone's freedom exists at the same time." 
 
You get my point, Captain.  However, we seem to come to the opposite conclusion.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:43am
"I don't chase Corey all over the board and make a vile abusive comment about his mother on every single post he makes.
But that is what he is doing to mine."
 
I'd say commenters can feed off each other.  I think most everyone would agree that it doesn't add anything to the conversation.  The only way to put an end to it is for authors to use their freedom to maintain the integrity of their articles.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:44am
"Unfortunately, for me, the negativity herein only serves to make me feel like shit after I respond vehemently to it. Perhaps others react similarly and that drives them away."
 
Again, that is my point.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:00am
MJ, it is ashamed that you don't write much anymore.  You have so much to offer.  I wish that you would.  Just use that delete key if anyone tries to take over your content.
 
As Autumn said, "Starting a blog is one alternative for these people, the hard part is finding people to read it. Writer Beat does the hard part for you. I believe the site has the potential to be a great internet success story."  If I had my own blog, I would certainly moderate it.  What Writer Beat offers is the best of all worlds.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:07am
Thanks, FJ.  Thanks to Autumn's non-bias, I don't believe the site has a political leaning.  You get opinions from all sides: left, right, middle, and from bizarro parallel universes.  That's great, as long as there is a reasonable level of civility.  I don't like moderators, to tell you the truth.  I left one site for that very reason.  I said something the moderator disagreed with (on climate change) and he deleted it.
 
 
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:10am
"On this site, I've been called a Jew.  My mother has been called a whore.  my father a liar."
 
It is unacceptable in your own article, John, and we have the power to remove it.  In other articles, you either accept it or don't read it.  We have the freedom.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:14am
"I think Writer Beat is evidence of what free speech looks like when it isn’t moderated, censored or filtered to your liking."
 
And, it is not always pretty.  That's ok.  Mixing it up can be fun.  I love the variety in opinions.  Tolerance is a good thing.  But, these inane, vulgar name calling and back and forth belongs on the playground, not in any serious discussion.
Bill Caciene Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:44am
While I can appreciate the need for the button, 99.9% of the time it's used it's used unnecessarily or hypocritically.  Besides, the surest and easiest way to silence a misbehaving commenter is to ignore said commenter.  
Dino Manalis Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:51am
While personal involvement is important, we also need members of Congress to carry out their duties competently and responsibly.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:05am
"Besides, the surest and easiest way to silence a misbehaving commenter is to ignore said commenter."
 
Bill, you can see how ignoring it has worked.  Many good threads have ended once the pair arrives on the scene.  No one else comments.  The pair goes at each other.  The thread dies.  Is that how free speech ends with us calling each other names and we all go home mad?  I don't enjoy the spectacle of watching two-year-olds fight and it has no place in an adult conversation.  If you invited guests to your home for a serious discussion, would you tolerate a couple of two years olds continually interrupting with the childish rants?  I wouldn't.
Bill Caciene Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:11am
Spare me, were talking about words on a computer screen.  You can easily scroll down and voila, the past is gone and an empty comment box appears. Besides, I rather enjoy watching the likes of John G and Saint George embarrass themselves with their childish behavior. 
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:12am
To each his own, Bill.
Even A Broken Clock Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:23am
Leroy, I do agree with you and have taken your advice on one occasion so far. I don't mind if someone violently disagrees with my comments, but when an exchange between commenters obviously becomes all about them, in hateful language, then I will choose to delete some comments that exceed my tolerance. Other posts from the same commenter will be allowed to stay in the same thread if they don't go for personal attacks on another commenter.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:27am
I agree wholeheartedly, Even.  Well stated.
opher goodwin Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:42am
I never delete comments Leroy. I leave them for others to judge. If it's offensive or abusive I reckon it shows the commentator up. If it is counter to what I think then it is healthy. It allows people to see different sides of the coin.
George N Romey Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:58am
Ignore the trolls they just want attention and add nothing.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:09pm
Do we have debates at all? If we take away the invective some here have nothing left to say and let's be honest we are only few people. WB is like some disqus group. We are just a bunch of random people making remarks.
 
I have deleted one comment and republished the content without the previous insult, but I generally think the problem runs deeper. Not just we at WB but people in general have become utterly unable to formulate arguments. It is not even fun anymore.
 
And I think the problem has become worse and worse over the last decade. Western society is split and it's a miracle that we have as little violence as we have.
 
I'm always against censorship. You can still delete comments as you like. WB is not that big. People with the wrong views in the wrong place have no voice anyway. WB makes no difference.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:17pm
Opher and George, there is nothing wrong with just ignoring them on your articles if that is what you want to do.  I had one of George's excellent articles in mind when I wrote this.  There was good conversation until one made an obnoxious comment.  In comes the other and the thread goes to pot.  It stymies the conversation.  It you don't mind this happening, that is up to you.  My point is that it discourages discussions and drives people away.  I'm puzzled by the call for moderators.  We seem to want it but we want someone else to do it.  Maybe Autumn is correct that few people call for it and prehaps my memory if faulty in remembering a thread dedicated to it.  I recall a lot of participants in the conversation.  Captain was willing to moderate.  Maybe it was a dream.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:32pm
I agree, Benjamin.  Many think that they are anonymous here and can say whatever they like.  I was once a member of a secret group on the dark web.  They wanted to invite my friend to join because he was a good analyist.  They were unaware of our connection.  He's a good guy and not anti-Semitic in the least.  But, he could make the worst anti-Semitic comments imaginable.  He offended one of the members.  He was given a second chance.  He could help himself.  I asked his reason.  He just liked to piss liberals off.  That's what we have become.  Things we would never say in public we say on line.  It is a good example of unmitigated free speech.  It's ugly.  Just as we have a right to control those who would yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater in the name of free speech, we have been granted the right here to control unreasonable speech.  It's our choice and our right (until it is taken away) to do so.
Ari Silverstein Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:38pm
Prior to joining this site, I knew Antisemitism existed but I had no idea how prevalent and accepted it was.  It makes me wonder what else we don’t know about people because they don’t have the right to speak freely.  I thank Writer Beat for opening my eyes for the first time.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:46pm
I agree, Ari.  I let most such statements stand as along as it doesn't devolve into name calling.  I think flag burning is disgraceful.  However, I don't want a law against it.  If my neighbor is a flag burner, I would rather know.  On the other hand, I wouldn't want to know that he refrains from murdering me only because there is a law.  Some control is necessary.
Dave Volek Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:47pm
Good article Leroy. I have just taken the approach that I don't have the time to respond to some people on WB. And I'm thankful that there are opportunities for engage with more rational souls.
 
About a month ago, I wrote an article called "The One Party State" which is about taking partisan politics to its next logical level. The first round of comments were interesting.  Then a couple of dingbats got into a catfight (neither I nor the article were ever mentioned), thereby almost proving the silliness of partisan politics in public discourse. 
 
I thought I should delete their comments. Then I thought maybe I comment on their catfight is typical of partisans. Then I thought: "Nah, there's no point." That thread is over, so be it.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:48pm
I do self-moderate.  Sometimes I made ill-advised comments.  I think about it and if I think it was unwarranted, I delete the comment.  I was recently criticized for doing so, although I didn't remember doing it on that thread.  I encourage self-moderate.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:12pm
Leroy: As I said WB is not important enough to be concerned about, so feel free to delete comments you don't like.
In general I do have a very different view. And as Ari said I also want to see the antisemitism. For me the problem is not unfiltered free speech. I see the problem coming from the opposite side. One group has been aggressively silencing the other to the point where they have even unlearnt to formulate arguments.
For the dude who shouts fire in a crowded theater, shout back that nobody can smell the fire! My problem is that we can't shout fire in a crowded theater anymore when IT IS BURNING.
It is not anonymity. People go on TV to call Ann Coulter a cunt (there was a Comedy Central roast that went that way). One group of people is utterly empowered to dominate the public discourse with complete media and academic control and they just make snarky remarks and throw invectives. As a result, all, not just those who share their views, have lost their ability to debate peacefully.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:14pm
I have forgotten to say that Saint George, for instance, is here to shout fire in a theater. The theater is Venezuela and it is burning!!!
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:41pm
Dave, IMHO, the thread was over because you let it be over.  You let the conversation be controlled by the dingbats and others lost interest.  If you lost interest, that's ok. You are not denying anyone's free speech to delete destructive comments.  It's an unwritten law that if a thread goes on long enough, it ends in name calling.
George N Romey Added Sep 12, 2017 - 3:19pm
Leroy great article and maybe one day Americans might realize they have the power by sheer numbers. I just wont engage the 2 year olds
here they are not worth it.
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 4:44pm
To John G,
All one needs to do is peruse your comment history to learn that I'm right.  
No Autumn. A reading of Corey's posting history shows an entirely different phenomenon. For the reasons I set out above.
There is a distinctly right wing view of free speech in operation on this site.
There is a big difference between stalking and robust argument and disagreement.
I'll call out Jackson as a racist because of his racist comments. What is Corey addressing by talking about abortions from Turkish whores?
If I had done a tenth of what Corey has, you'd have banned me.
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 4:45pm
Romey: I just wont engage the 2 year olds
here they are not worth it.
You won't engage anyone who doesn't share your 'the end is nigh' conspiracy theories and gold bug voodoonomics.
opher goodwin Added Sep 12, 2017 - 7:22pm
The object of a debate/discussion site like this is to engage in discussion with people of all manner of views. In the most that is done amiably. People might have diametrically opposed views but we can discuss this like adults and agree or disagree. Occasionally we encounter personal abuse and that really shows up the person making it and their immaturity. Some people simply cannot accept that other people do not think like them. I find that sad. Personal abuse is the last resort of an ignorant, immature fool.
I enjoy engaging with people of all views and want to understand more of why they think the way they do. Most people have very good reasons for why they think the way they do. I might not agree with them but we can at least be civil.
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 7:49pm
Tone policing is just another form of censorship that liberals have adopted from the far right.
It only ever gets used on the leftist critics of the wishy washy liberals. Never on the right.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:31pm
John G notes: Romey: I just wont engage the 2 year olds here they are not worth it.
You won't engage anyone who doesn't share your 'the end is nigh' conspiracy theorie-That's it for you, Geo.  You live for people loving everything you write and almost beg for compliments and agreement.  Fine, but just cop to it and everyone can move on.  I think Leroy is stinging from a series of attacks I'll say he doesn't deserve from a couple of WB "nonparticipants"-two articles and one of them hasn't done any but claims he's some big time writer...again all talk, no action. Hmmm.  A trend?
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:58pm
"I think Leroy is stinging from a series of attacks I'll say he doesn't deserve from a couple of WB "nonparticipants"-two articles and one of them hasn't done any but claims he's some big time writer...again all talk, no action. Hmmm.  A trend?"
 
What attacks?  I must have been asleep.  Quite the opposite.  I recently claimed that I wasn't a writer.  You seem to be making stuff up, Jeff.  If you feel otherwise, please support your claim.  I must admit, I have difficulty comprending what you are trying to say.
wsucram15 Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:37pm
Leroy.
As we all have the right to free speech, we also have the right of protection from words that incite hate which is an exception to Free Speech.  It is up to an individual to act responsibly under the law, not abuse it or this site and the liberties granted, as so often happens on here.
 
 Personally I dont delete for vulgarity, I delete after I tell you to stop and you refuse or you continue to badger someone for no reason and with no regard for the article.   I will only delete a comment from a person I specifically asked to refrain from commenting me and believe me I dont comment them either, it just makes no sense to argue like that.  Actually that was advice from Autumn.
 
All things can be worked out without being a mean person or trying to put someone on the defensive. Which happens often on here and why there are so many battles.  We arent kids..and its stupid.
 
I dont owe you a damn thing, nor you me, except this..respect as a person that occupies the same space as yourself on this page.   It is not earned, we are equal here to begin with.  If I did not disrespect you, then there is no reason to disrespect me.  It should  work that way on here and it did for a long time.  We can discuss differences of opinion with out name calling and insults.
 
Also Leroy, your complaining about the delete button which has been that way for over 4 years now, is the same as people complaining to Autumn about the abuse by some of the people on here.  The site is what it is...I like the way it is, Ive been here a long time and recently we almost lost the site.
Please just be happy with what you have.
wsucram15 Added Sep 12, 2017 - 9:38pm
JohnG..I know about the grammatical errors..too tired to correct.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:14pm
A+++ Leroy!
 
I wont get entangled in the thread of comments, but speak only to your content.
 
You are entirely correct friend. No more need be said.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:19pm
Thank you for your comments, WSU.  Assuming that when you say "you", you don't mean me personally but mean a hypothetical "you", then I agree with you up until the last paragraph.  I think I just confused myself with that sentence.
 
I am not complaining about the delete button.  I celebrate it.  I encourage authors to make use of it.  I seem to sense that Autumn would like to get rid of it.  I hope she does not.
 
Secondly, I seem to recall that you cried to Autumn before.  I don't always remember but I never forget.
 
I am happy with what Autumn has so graciously provided.   Quite honestly, I am puzzled why she does so.  There is almost no chance it will be profitable in its present form.  Google would never allow it to be promoted.   I have speculated with others that we are a social or psychological experiment just to see how people behave when given unfettered free speech with the opportunity to control it with the articles we write.  Do we use the delete button or not? Maybe we are lab rats.   Maybe it is a test.  In any case, it is worth a psychological examination.  Maybe Autumn changes the experiment and removes the delete button.  Only she knows.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:25pm
Thanks, TBH.
Leroy Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:39pm
John G., you seem to think there is a conservative bias here.  I think Autumn is unwaveringly neutral.  However, I sense that she spends more time recruiting those of a more liberal bias.  They tend not to stick around, so it makes sense.  They seem to expect everyone to like what they have to say and everyone group hugs and sings Kumbaya.  Those of the more conservative persuasion tend to be battle hardened and stick around longer.
 
I do agree, John G., that you are unmercifully hounded by your arch nemesis.  If you make a comment, he is right there on top of you.  But, you bring it on yourself with your unprovoked name calling.  You seem to be incapable of rational discussion.  If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were from some bizarro parallel universe where everything is opposite than what is on earth.  May I suggest a little more civility.  Just ignore him.  Maybe then there would be more sympathy for your plight.
wsucram15 Added Sep 12, 2017 - 10:45pm
Once but not to anyone on this site now and as I said she advised a route that I took and it worked.  Ive never hid that fact and ultimately worked it out very well with the other person.
There was another time, but I did not go to Autumn, not even close. She can end a person on here..who wants that?  It does not need to be like that, we are trying to vent, exchange ideas and of course it will get heated.
We just need to fan those flames though.
Im glad you dont want the delete button gone...I misunderstood you.
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 12, 2017 - 11:13pm
I dont owe you a damn thing, nor you me, except this..respect
 
Respect is earned. Full stop. 
 
John G Added Sep 13, 2017 - 12:46am
Leroy. if I call you a racist because you make racist comments and assertions, that is not 'unprovoked name calling".
As to rational discussion I don't believe you are in a position to judge.
Your use of the delete button is on a par with Jackson's in my opinion.
I'm not surprised that you don't recognise the right wing bias. You probably consider yourself a centrist, along with several other right wing extremists here.
That's what happens when you live in an echo chamber. 
Leroy Added Sep 13, 2017 - 2:08am
And, John G., if you call someone "fat" because you disagree, how does that further your argument?
 
For the record, I am a liberal.  More precisely, a classical liberal.  I am not a centrist.  My motto is, "If you aren't living on the edge, you are taking up too much space."
Saint George Added Sep 13, 2017 - 2:44am
This business of fascists calling themselves 'classical liberals' is so transparent and Orwellian.
 
This business of statists trying to signal to others how virtuous and morally concerned they are by calling themselves "radical socialists" — when in reality, they are nothing more than social control freaks, who despise people that pursue their own individual goals and happiness — is quite clearly a species of moral corruption combined with a mental illness.
 
It's been around a long time and is easy to recognize.
John G Added Sep 13, 2017 - 4:35am
You're ensuring that this web site as as successful as it deserves to be.
The attraction that this stuff presents to prospective writers and readers is immeasurable.
S.R. Morris Added Sep 13, 2017 - 7:25am
I agree with Leroy, Saint George and John G provide no value.  Even after Leroy deletes them they keep coming back like cockroaches. Authors should have the ability to block select people from commenting or autumn should just delete their accounts.
Leroy Added Sep 13, 2017 - 8:15am
Thanks for your support, SR.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 13, 2017 - 9:07am
If Writer Beat ever makes it I will need to find a way to deal with problematic accounts without my personal involvement.  However, seeing Writer Beat is still small, I can manage the site without a bunch of automated features.  So below is a new rule which will address the behavior of John G and Saint George.  Before announcing this rule I want to make it perfectly clear that I value any participant that comments on the work of others very highly.  Even Dino Manalis, who I don’t think ever read a single article he commented in, is far more valuable than those that post articles and never comment on the work of others.  Based on that, it brings me great pain to harm any user that comments on the work of others which clearly includes Saint George and John G, but I feel like I no longer have a choice.
 
New Rule – Saint George and John G are no longer allowed to communicate to each other.  Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension. 
wsucram15 Added Sep 13, 2017 - 9:16am
Jeffry..how do you earn respect when all anyone does is argue. 
I think a better statement on here would be-"we respect our opinions because we agree."
I will give anyone the respect a human being deserves until they give me cause not to and even then I still try.
There are too many people on here that think they are better than other people, and they arent...they are on here, in the same space.
wsucram15 Added Sep 13, 2017 - 9:24am
Autumn..
I cant believe I am saying this..but, let them attack each other, please.  Give them their own feed even, we can give it a name so they can just rip each other apart. 
Just a suggestion.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 13, 2017 - 11:30am
Jeffry..how do you earn respect when all anyone does is argue. 
 
If all one does is argue and belittle you and your ideas nothing you say will make them respect you and to continue with them shows them they're right not to respect you.
 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 13, 2017 - 11:33am
Actually, we have two extremes: people dumbing articles and people writing commentary. There are not so many genuine, real articles that are socially/politically relevant. We often just publish stubs and see if a debate ensues.
Ultimately, we don't know how we use the site. You can have discussions on Facebook, Reddit and disqus. They are, however, echo chambers.
William Stockton Added Sep 13, 2017 - 12:44pm
"New Rule – Saint George and John G are no longer allowed to communicate to each other.  Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension. "
 
Oh, Lord.  Is this a joke Autumn?  You can't be serious.  If Saint isn't allowed to speak to the John G's abuse here, someone else will.  I don't think this is the correct solution.
George N Romey Added Sep 13, 2017 - 12:47pm
I believe that if Autumn required at least one article per month the trolls would go away or simply use their articles to taunt the other trolls.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 13, 2017 - 1:11pm
Romey: I agree. But honestly I would also let it slip and wouldn't publish an article per month. It would just lead us to more stubs and paste jobs. I said it before and I repeat it here again: I don't want to push out John G. I'd rather see him write articles to make his argument.
 
The bigger issue, though, is that we'd have too little commentary if the two trolls went away completely. I suggest the forum should be open to visitors. The best way is to get a disqus widget. It is free for still uncommercial sites like this.
 
Autumn: What would you say about using disqus? It is becoming very popular and it increases traffic.
Leroy Added Sep 13, 2017 - 1:51pm
"New Rule – Saint George and John G are no longer allowed to communicate to each other.  Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension."
 
I would rather see authors police their own threads.  Some like Bill C. enjoy the banter.  Why not let him keep it?  All authors have to do is take some responsibility if the conversation gets out of hand.
 
We've had some intelligent discussion in this thread.  If I hadn't taken some initiative, this thread would have devolved into the bickering between two individuals.  This article is an example of what a little bit of policing can do.
 
I am grateful to all who have participated.
 
 
Autumn Cote Added Sep 13, 2017 - 2:33pm
Benjamin,
I looked long and hard about going with Disqus and decided not to use it because I want your email addresses.  I need them because it’s my best/only source of advertising. My weekly once a week email to dormant accounts generates all sorts of activity and with Disqus I wouldn’t have access to your emails.  In addition, I’m unaware of any financially profitable websites that don’t also obtain email addresses.  Do you think those are dumb reasons not to use Disqus?
 
To all,
The new rule has officially been rescinded. 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 13, 2017 - 3:07pm
Autumn:
I think you can still have the email address from all those who want to publish articles. I would seperate that, though, from people who just browse from Vox or Breitbart to WB and leave some comments here and there. Of course, at the moment, you may ask the authors to also comment with Disqus.
The first advantage is that you connect to an already growing community. Disqus is very modern and user friendly. It is the modern trend one does not want to miss.
The second advantage is that, in case this site grows and you may want to place ads, advertisers often look at the number of comments that they find on a site.
The third advantage is that it decreases our email spam and the number of viewers will better reflect those who actually read the article (and don't just check comments).
 
I think what WB can provide is this rally of articles that are truly diverse and socially relevant. The pure free speech attitude sets it already apart from other places. That's the edge. If you look at Wordpress or Blogger as platforms they do their best to promote dull articles like 'floral decoration' or 'life with asperger'. YouTube is famously destroying all its socially relevant content at the moment. Same is true for Facebook. People notice that private blogs are hidden by Google and the search engine duckduckgo has a recent surge in users especially for this reason. Everybody knows that Google is highly political. In other words, if you let it flow uncensored, WB is a resort for free speech and a variety of relevant topics.
Mike Haluska Added Sep 13, 2017 - 3:55pm
Our Congressmen and Senators are representatives - not "leaders" or "rulers" as Nancy Pelosi would have you believe.  If the Constitution were strictly adhered to, it wouldn't be such a big deal which party is in power.  Things that the "Progressives" want like "Single Payer Health Care" are fine to propose, but since health care is NOT a responsibility of the Federal Government it should be processed like an AMENDMENT to the Constitution, requiring 2/3 of the states to ratify.
 
"Progressives" followed this legitimate path in the 1970's with the "Equal Rights Amendment" and got voted down by the states.  They came to the conclusion that they would never get their agenda passed legitimately because most Americans didn't support them.  That's when the push for "Progressive" Federal Judge appointments began because they realized they could use the courts to "legislate from the bench".  This is how "Roe vs. Wade" became law - even though the Constitution has NOTHING to say about the subject.  The "Progressives" got the SCOTUS to uphold based on "Freedom of Expression" - nobody has yet to explain what "freedom of expression" has to do with killing babies in the womb. 
Mike Haluska Added Sep 13, 2017 - 3:57pm
Autumn - this is your website, you make the rules.  If posters don't like it they can "take their bat and ball and go play somewhere else"! 
George N Romey Added Sep 13, 2017 - 4:03pm
I agree the bigger well known sites are mostly lots of fluff and see very few comments because it's so terribly dull. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 13, 2017 - 4:38pm
I like it this way.  Yes, authors of their pieces can delete comments which is fine with me.  I did this once, I requested the poster write his article and stop trolling mine.  He persisted, I deleted.  Note, this was not someone who I was arguing the point with, this is someone who made it personal.
 
That being said I like that Autumn leaves us to our own devices.  Sometimes free speech isn't pretty but that's the way it is.
George N Romey Added Sep 13, 2017 - 4:42pm
The big issue is that when potential contributors see the snide comments made by 3 people in particular it's off putting and nothing different from FB. We've lost some very good authors and right now less than 20 people carry this site.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 13, 2017 - 4:58pm
Romey: That's why I say we must seperate the comment and content providers. We are all more likely to ask people to join in if it was not for the email spamming. You can also link to WB when you are already in some Disqus forum. People are already logged in and might leave a comment. That again can hook people up and turn them into article providers.
If enough people comment, some trolls make little difference. It would also give us rather the chance to decide if somebody should be suspended. At the moment even the trolls are indispensible because we are so few. People don't join in and comment if they find no previous comments. John G is serving us more than he is doing harm IF people find it easy to comment on the site.
I still think that we also need an RSS feed so that other blogs reblog us and link to us. Visibility on the internet is all about external links.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 13, 2017 - 5:44pm
Geo Romey whines: The big issue is that when potential contributors see the snide comments made by 3 people in particular it's off putting-You mean the constant flow of "the end is near, fear and loathing" and constant stream of nostalgia "AUNT sally was saved by Jews and a black guy named Joanie" articles aren't off putting?  Seems a formula for instant existential nausea, ol Geo. 
Leroy Added Sep 13, 2017 - 6:12pm
"The big issue is that when potential contributors see the snide comments made by 3 people in particular it's off putting and nothing different from FB."
 
It is not my experience on FB.  It's typically family, friends, and colleagues.  You don't want to piss them off.  There seems to be a little more decorum in that regard on FB.
 
Autumn said it pretty well:
 
...He should save his political thoughts for the internet, and I don’t mean Facebook, and discuss the weather or good movies at cocktail parties. In other words, Writer Beat is a safe place to say what’s on your mind without it souring your professional or personal network.
 
It's pretty much how I use it.  I couldn't help myself during the election.  It surprised me how many people I grew up with proudly proclaimed to be socialist.  And the liberals were so sure that Clinton would win that they enjoyed rubbing it in everyone's face.  I probably soured a few relations.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 13, 2017 - 6:51pm
Jeffrey Kelly unintentionally "punishes" us: I like that Autumn leaves us to our own devices.-Getting on to that time of year, eh? LOL  I need to oil and sharpen my devices.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 13, 2017 - 7:25pm
Benjamin,
The assumption you’re making is that Disqus will serve to increase our traffic.  I’m worried that it could work in the opposite direction.  I think most websites that use Disqus do so because they don’t care about the comments.  I think commenting is the most important part about our site (most websites for tham matter) and I like having total control over them.  I just don’t see a lot of people seeing your activity on Disqus, then clicking your name on Disqus and making their way here.  However, I openly admit that I could be reading it wrong and have made a mistake in not going with Disqus.  As for those notification emails Writer Beat sends out, they do a great job of keeping you folks engaged with the site.  However, if you wanted to make them stop, you have the power to do so.  If we used Disqus we wouldn’t be able to send them out, because we wouldn’t have your email address. 
 
George,
There are trolls on Writer Beat?  Kindly name who they are.  Note, according to Wikipedia an internet troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll's amusement. As angered as I’ve been at John G and Saint George, I don’t think they’re behaving like trolls.  I think they’re both passionate about what they believe and never back down. 
William Stockton Added Sep 13, 2017 - 8:40pm
Autumn, "As angered as I’ve been at John G and Saint George, I don’t think they’re behaving like trolls."
 
Are you asking what your contributors think where trolls like John G "sows discord . . . by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response" ?
 
How often do you seek feedback?  I'm trying to be constructive here because, without your contributors, you have no website.  If you are angered as a 3rd party, how do you think your contributors feel as content creators?  Have you even asked the question?  Strange
 
Anyway, I'm not advocating for a change other than perhaps some blocking mechanisms (as opposed to having to delete offensive comments).
Jeff Michka Added Sep 13, 2017 - 9:31pm
john guzlowski sez: On this site, I've been called a Jew.  My mother has been called a whore.  my father a liar.-And that's all you've been called?  Seems folks have been extraordinarily nice, given tones here. 
Autumn Cote Added Sep 13, 2017 - 10:17pm
William
How often do you seek feedback?  
Frequently.  For example, I've published like 30 articles and in all of them I'm seeking feedback and making changes per that feedback.  
 
I'm trying to be constructive here because, without your contributors, you have no website.  If you are angered as a 3rd party, how do you think your contributors feel as content creators?  
It’s easy to find contributors, but I agree, without them I’d have no website. Generally I think people are pretty happy here, otherwise they wouldn’t be here. However, I'm the first to admit that Writer Beat isn't for everyone, especially the thin-skinned.  
 
Have you even asked the question?
Have I even asked what question?
Dawn Foss Added Sep 13, 2017 - 10:19pm
Leroy, excellent article! I agree with you. It is a waste of time to see people not intelligently contributing but just bickering and using this as a platform to spit hate and antagonism to everyone of a different opinion. We can respectfully disagree and say why we do. THAT'S what this nation needs, intelligent debate. This way we can learn from one another. Insults do nothing for anybody. Perspectives and educated opinions are worth their weight in gold. Autumn - you do a great job, and this beat has great value when used properly, and it's up to us to do so.
Dawn Foss Added Sep 13, 2017 - 10:34pm
Mike - Amen to what you said!
 
Autumn, thank you for all your comments.
 
I complained to Autumn this morning because I was discouraged trying to read what was a good article, and going down the comments and reading all kinds of trash. I feel it keeps good commentators away. 
 
However, I do see the value to free speech, but with freedom comes responsibility. We can be passionate about our beliefs, but we should always be respectful of others, as fellow human beings. We can write what we want, but no one has the right to abuse one another. That's not only unlawful, but it's common sense.
William Stockton Added Sep 13, 2017 - 11:19pm
Autumn, 
Have you even asked the question?
Have I even asked what question?
 
Are there trolls and what can I (you Autumn) do about them.
 
I have a suspicion that even if a new author named "Troll" came here and posted troll comments, you would still say, "where's the trolls".
LOL
 
Anyway . . . again, not recommending you do anything different.  Just stop, for god's sake, saying there are no trolls.  There are plenty of content creators here who think different.  But hey....what do we know.  We are just the lowly who come here and have the honor of posting articles for you.  We get shit-posted on our articles and you get mad.  LOL 
 
Mohr thik skin plz.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 14, 2017 - 6:30am
William,
I don’t think there are any trolls on Writer Beat.  If you (anyone) think there is one, kindly let me know the author/commenter’s name and I’ll take a look at his or her comment history and let you know if I agree. 
 
In my opinion, and I’m not saying this applies to you, the label of “troll” is used way too loosely.  It’s often used because the accused wrote a dissenting opinion or was rude in the way he wrote that dissenting opinion.  That’s the nature of all comment threads, you’re far more likely to receive feedback from someone that disagrees with you and often people don’t handle it very well so they lash out and accuse the commenter of being a troll. 
 
I don’t think any content producer is “lowly,” nor producing content for my benefit.  I think all of you write largely for yourself, which is a good thing.  In fact, my favorite participants are those that write articles and comments.  It gives me great pleasure to provide these authors a readership, so the relationship is very symbiotic.   
 
On a side note, I don't like your tone.  However, so long as you continue to comment on the work of others, I will do everything in my power to make sure your articles obtain a readership...LOL    
wsucram15 Added Sep 14, 2017 - 6:54am
No jeffry...
not listening to anothers opinion and in stead belittling that person, is only ok if you like being abusive and closed minded.  Which is a huge problem on here for people who do not write.   However feel free to criticize.
Its alright to disagree, but thats why we have civil discourse in stead of personal insults.
William Stockton Added Sep 14, 2017 - 7:43am
Autumn,  "I don’t think there are any trolls on Writer Beat."
First, why does it matter if you think there are (or not) any trolls.  Secondly, would it even make any difference if you did see one?
 
Lastly, the article by Fat Bastardo (Why The Red States Suck) you have John G admitting it was a troll post and mocking us who got suckered into commenting there.  
 
I don't like your tone either Autumn.  I don't like the dismissive nature of your comments towards authors here who are contributing to this site.   Again, we write articles, trolls shitpost on them, and you say you are mad about it.  That is just really weird that it is your feelings that are important and not your authors.
 
Just my opinion and I frankly don't care if you don't like my tone or not willing to advance my articles anymore.  It would only show your authoritarian powertrip you call "administration".  Not saying this is true . . . but it sure looks like it.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 14, 2017 - 8:04am
William,
 
“First, why does it matter if you think there are (or not) any trolls.  Secondly, would it even make any difference if you did see one?”
 
If there was a troll using this site I would delete the account.  Do you remember Bug?  I deleted her account. 
 
“Lastly, the article by Fat Bastardo (Why The Red States Suck) you have John G admitting it was a troll post and mocking us who got suckered into commenting there.”
 
Because John G thinks a post was a troll post does not make something a troll post.  I didn’t read the article, are you accusing Fat Bastardo or John G of being a troll?
 
“I don't like the dismissive nature of your comments towards authors here who are contributing to this site.”
 
For the record, I’ve never been dismissive of authors who comment on the work of others.  As for the others, I wish they’d all leave.  I suppose after four years of doing this I’m a little jaded towards the selfish (authors that don’t comment on the work of others) and I can appreciate someone else thinking I’m too rude to them. 
 
“Again, we write articles, trolls shitpost on them, and you say you are mad about it.”
 
Again, name the troll.  We don’t have to like each other and you’re free to call me names (authoritarian powertrip) without retribution.  All I require is that if you (anyone) use this site you comment on the work of others. 
William Stockton Added Sep 14, 2017 - 8:55am
Autumn, Please allow me to end on a more positive note.  
 
I do appreciate your adherence to free speech.  Thank you from all of us.  I understand your position is difficult and you have to navigate politically charged disagreements from personalities both honest and nefarious . . . and especially in these times of increased political turmoil.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 14, 2017 - 9:49am
William,
By end, I sure hope you only mean this thread.  Frankly, the easy part of administering this site is moderating it, as I’ve left that task up to the authors.  For whatever its worth, you’ve written 1,603 comments, published 34 articles, have 45 followers and your articles have achieved a grand total of 22,979 page views…many thanks for participation with Writer Beat!
wsucram15 Added Sep 14, 2017 - 10:11am
Autumn..
William is right..thank you for all you do.  We might say some thing to you but its because you are not just the person running the site...
Your "Autumn Cote", a writer first, and for that we do appreciate you.
George N Romey Added Sep 14, 2017 - 11:03am
Anyone that writes an article under a fake name to get a rise out of the other writers is pathetic. I didn't comment on the article, it was either a con job or a moron-both of which I have no patience for.  The best way to get rid of trolls is to ignore them.  They are here for the attention not to make a contribution.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 14, 2017 - 12:40pm
Autumn:
Thank you for giving me a hearing.
Concerns I don't really share that much
I don't think in the least that there is an issue with getting email addresses. All participants who want to publish articles will have to register with their email addresses.
Disqus is likely to increase traffic because people who usually comment on websites will just stop by and as they are already logged in anyway will leave their remarks. I honestly believe that the email flood is a bigger concern to users who drop out than the fights between some users. The Disqus notification system is excellent. It reminds users of new comments whenever they are on a website that uses the Disqus widget or if users go on Disqus' main page.
Concerns that I partly understand
However, I do see, of course, that Disqus is a competitor at the same time. Maybe that is what you fear when you write about a potential decrease in traffic. One can join a group at Disqus' main site, publish articles there and let people comment on them. The issue they have is that you will only preach to the choire because your chosen group will be an echo chamber. This is why I explained in a previous comment on this thread where I see the edge of WB. It is in the rally of various articles that make it to the top and stay there for some merit (upvoting, views). It is in a way a true market of ideas and WB exposes users to new ideas and stories.
I just don’t see a lot of people seeing your activity on Disqus, then clicking your name on Disqus and making their way here.
That's right, but Disqus allows links. Many writers are selfish enough to link to their own articles in a general discussion. That will bring in fresh blood.
Probably the biggest concern
I don't know the technical interface of Disqus. So I wouldn't know if your algorithm that you use to sort the articles on the page can be fed with the number of comments on an article.
This is now a strategic decision and I understand that you have thought long and hard about it. If the number of comments are technically not readable for your algorithm, you would have to let it go and use views and upvotes as the criteria for what position an article will take at what time. As Romey says there are not so many people actually 'carrying' the site, that is adding articles and leaving comments. We somehow have to focus on people who do publish and I think many people want to publish texts on a shared site. It is just that the dated comment and email notification system makes it unattractive in my oppinion.
 
You have probably thought through a lot of this before. I just add my opinion here. Maybe somebody else has a take on it as well. I don't want to publish an article making the argument because I think we have enough articles talking about ourselves. :D
Autumn Cote Added Sep 14, 2017 - 2:03pm
George,
I couldn’t disagree more.  One of the reasons I started Writer Beat was because I believe people should be free to say what’s on their mind without potentially soiling their professional or social network.  Think of the admin at a Dallas based oil firm who is adamantly against Trump.  It could be a devastating career move if her political thoughts were made public. Anonymity provides her the opportunity to say what’s on her mind.  Also, if there is a troll on Writer Beat, kindly let me know his name, I’ll delete the account. 
 
Benjamin,
Right now we don’t have two categories of accounts.  All members can comment and submit articles.  So if we went with the Disqus platform, for authors to reply to commenters, would authors have to then use their Disqus account?  I suspect the answer is yes (meaning that won’t work), but even if the answer was no, I’m simply not sold on Disqus.  I know several people that avoid any website that uses Disqus.  Most websites seem to be moving to a system whereby comments are made via one of the big social networks.  Again, we came really close to going with Disqus, so the idea has merit, I just have a bad feeling about it. 
wsucram15 Added Sep 14, 2017 - 2:16pm
Man I love this page.
Ok Autumn I am here.  Wikipedia BY THEIR OWN DEFINITION is not a reliable or authoritative source for research material, specifically for citation purposes.  The information can be edited and changed by anyone at anytime and often due to cost, errors can go unnoticed for long periods of time.   I will agree that if you look on the bottom on the page and research the origin data, it is a good source for that. 
So here is the definition of a TROLL...by one of the most reliable sources.
here is the definition of an internet troll by Merriam- Webster.
"to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content


… trolls engage in the most outrageous and offensive behaviors possible—all the better to troll you with.
—Whitney Phillips


b :to act as a troll (see target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">3troll 2) on (a forum, site, etc.)

… is also notorious, for trolling message boards on the Internet, posting offensive material he himself has written and then suing anyone who responds in agreement.
—Mark Hemingway


c :to harass, criticize, or antagonize (someone) especially by provocatively disparaging or mocking public statements, postings, or acts"
 

To this end..you have Trolls and always have, but most of them at least posted an article first. Then antagonized the writers.
Keep that delete button.  I love the page...this was just food for thought.
 
 
 
 
 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 14, 2017 - 2:25pm
Autumn: What reasons do these people quote to avoid sites with disqus? Yes, it is a seperate account, but I don't see why asking people to register with disqus is more challenging than to ask them e.g. to comment on other articles.
The other platform that I would know of and which is used for comments is facebook and I think even this only works in combination with Disqus. Breitbart.com is automatically feeding Facebook comments into the Disqus tool. I think it is all really connected now, which is why I believe that we are losing out on traffic if we miss the boat.
Leroy Added Sep 14, 2017 - 2:33pm
"It is a waste of time to see people not intelligently contributing but just bickering and using this as a platform to spit hate and antagonism to everyone of a different opinion. We can respectfully disagree and say why we do. THAT'S what this nation needs, intelligent debate. This way we can learn from one another. Insults do nothing for anybody. Perspectives and educated opinions are worth their weight in gold."
 
Very well said, Dawn, and it is worth repeating.
 
I think it was Spiderman who said, "With great power comes great responsibility."  We have the power, but we should also be responsible.
Leroy Added Sep 14, 2017 - 2:34pm
WSU, the Captains comments were borderline.  They were unfair for sure.  If you are offended, I will delete them and all references to them.
wsucram15 Added Sep 14, 2017 - 2:41pm
The Captains comments did I miss something?
 
wsucram15 Added Sep 14, 2017 - 2:46pm
Are you talking about Jeffry? Hes ok..rude but ok, I pay him no mind. He likes to belittle women that arent asian and ignore him.
He is angry..but with some reason I think.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 14, 2017 - 3:36pm
WILLY Stockpot rambles: Lastly, the article by Fat Bastardo (Why The Red States Suck) you have John G admitting it was a troll post and mocking us who got suckered into commenting there. But:  I didn’t read the article-Then why like a fish did you rise for the bait, and came on with your usual body shaming and other stockform rightist nonsense?  You got suckered, Willy.  Just own up, for a change, and quit blaming others for YOUR failings.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 14, 2017 - 6:48pm
Benjamin,
If we made the switch to Discus why do you think traffic would increase?  It’s not like Discus will advertise Writer Beat.  The only way to discover Writer Beat is to research the comment history of another Discus user, hope they wrote on Writer Beat and hope that comment entices them to try us out.  I’m all over the blogosphere commenting in people’s articles and hardly ever does someone read one of my comments (that isn’t the author who I have just flattered) and find their way to Writer Beat. I’d be more inclined to go with Discus if you had some support from this group, but nobody has said a word. 
 
Wsucram15,
Wikipedia draws upon the knowledge of millions of people.  Websters draws upon the knowledge of a select few.  Based on that simple fact alone, I think Wikipedia is the more reliable source despite what Websters or Wikipedia says about their own information quality.  As it relates to internet trolls, both sites have near identical definitions, so the debate is a needless one to have.  This is now my third request to all those who claim there to be trolls on Writer Beat…name one.    
Saint George Added Sep 14, 2017 - 7:09pm
So here is the definition of a TROLL...by one of the most reliable sources . . . here is the definition of an internet troll by Merriam- Webster.
 
"Reliable" according to whom?

 Here is the definition of "troll" found in The American Heritage Dictionary online:
 
"A person who posts inflammatory or otherwise unwanted material on an electronic forum, especially anonymously."
John G Added Sep 14, 2017 - 7:49pm
I think Fat Badstardo's post was a humorous take on some of the (seriously intended) guff that the right writes. 
It was obviously satire.
A few were taken in and didn't like it being pointed out.
Some of the people complaining are serial offenders for writing vicious, nasty, violent hate speech against what they perceive to be 'the left'.
The hypocrisy of people who call for genocide, military action, economic sanctions (that kill indiscriminately) and regime change on others tone policing a forum or complaining that they were taken in by satire is breath taking.
Saint George Added Sep 14, 2017 - 8:08pm
Some whiners on this site proffer vile tirades of vituperation on whomever they perceive as "the right", which always turns out to be anything even a hair's breadth incrementally less leftist than themselves.
Bill Caciene Added Sep 14, 2017 - 9:01pm
To MJ,
Finally someone named someone.  It was getting ridiculous with all the accusations and never a name. 
 
I just searched Michka’s comment activity and didn’t read anything all that terrible.  He’s not the type to compliment someone, but his comments are on topic and generally coherent.  He doesn’t resort to vile language or much else I found all that troll-like.  If he were to be kicked out for being a Troll, Autumn would also have to kick out a bunch of others as well.  
 
To Michka,
I also searched MJ’s comment activity and didn’t find any evidence of her calling you a name. 
Jeff Michka Added Sep 14, 2017 - 9:05pm
Since MJ is so innocent and beset, time to remind":  http://writerbeat.com/articles/15524-MJ-Tries-to-get-Her-Way  If at first you don't succeed, try, TRY again, MJ.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 14, 2017 - 9:36pm
Mommy Mommy Mommy someone called me a bad name!!!
 
Oh the humanity!
 
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 3:00am
New Rule – Saint George and John G are no longer allowed to communicate to each other.  Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension. 
Leroy Added Sep 15, 2017 - 6:09am
In case you missed it, John G., Autumn rescinded the rule after receiving feedback from the commenters here, including myself.  I see that you are complaining on other threads.  I regret to inform you that you are not a victim.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 15, 2017 - 6:14am
Michka,
For whatever it’s worth, the types of articles I hate the most are those where a participant here is singled out and attacked.  The best course of action to deal with a participant you don’t like is to ignore the person.  An article like that is the exact opposite thing to do which makes me think you enjoy having fights with people.  I’m not going to call you a troll (yet), but the action is a very troll-like thing to do.
 
MJ,
I think Michka’s comments are pretty good.  He can be a little out there at times, but for the most part he’s great at outing hypocrisy.  I know Bill doesn’t agree he’s a troll, is there anyone else that agrees with you?
Leroy Added Sep 15, 2017 - 6:42am
IHMO, if we are naming names, John G. and Jeff M. both exhibit "troll-like" qualities.  However, to be a troll, there has to be intent.  They both seem passionate about what they believe.  I am not sure that there is intent.  Only they know.  I don't believe John to be from this universe.
 
Jeff does like to make things up about me.  Whether it is intent or confusion with another commenter, I can't say.  Who, of all people, would attack MJ?  Maybe I deserved the honorable mention, but dedicating an article attacking MJ is beyond the pale.
Paul Discher Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:29am
It's almost impossible for there to be a troll on this site, as from what I can tell, the site is politically neutral. By way of example, a troll is a liberal that goes on a conservative website and drums up trouble or vice versa.  As for naming names, can't we all get a long well enough that we don't have to throw those we dislike out the door? Or is that too much to ask?
Jeff Michka Added Sep 15, 2017 - 9:47am
Leroy, the innocent says: Jeff does like to make things up about me.  Whether it is intent or confusion with another commenter-Well, you've forgotten the "introduction" where you came in and joined perping fake news about a mall shooting, whereby the shooter, was, of course, "a muslim terrorist," (there was NO evidence at the time, or ever, he killed himself, so nobody well ever know. As said before, there was actually someone writing on this site that had been involved in prior treatment of the gunman, but a muslim bash was too good to pass up.) then tried to move the dialog into one about "gun free zones" so you could rave about 2nd amendment issues.  It has gotten better. Paul Discher asks: can't we all get a long well enough that we don't have to throw those we dislike out the door? Or is that too much to ask? - I think the obvious short answer here is No, Paul.  I'm suppose to run at the first hurled accusations at me.  Even Geo Romey, the actionless, told me to leave.  It's not his site, and last I checked, he doesn't own anything but people telling him how "right" he is and how "wonderful his insight."  He lives for that stuff, and telling people the end is near.  MJ tried to "get back", but failed.  That's my fault?  She tried to move opinion before, and got the article in response.  I was being "nice."
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 15, 2017 - 11:48am
Autumn:
I'm also surprised that nobody weighs in on this. I think it's pretty crucial. The reason why they don't is that they are those who stay and who don't chicken out because of the email notification system. The vast majority of people disappear without notice. I think the amount of emails play a big role in this.
Strange, when I leave links to my own blog on comment sections, I often see people coming from there (wordpress sometimes catches the origin of traffic). So I wouldn't know why that would not be the case if all of our authors link up on a widely used comment section system. Using Disqus is joining a community with Breitbart, DailyWire, DailyCaller, Rolling Stones, Frontpage mag and a gazillion other places. People are clearly more willing to comment when they are logged in anyway. But I would say that at first I would not expect more comments from outsiders. I would rather say that it would increase the number of writers who expect to work with a modern notification system.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 15, 2017 - 12:03pm
Disqus censors. Fuck disqus. This site is about freedom disqus is about controlling the narrative. 
George N Romey Added Sep 15, 2017 - 12:22pm
The thing about Jeff (and a few others) is that they have no original thought or content.  Just personal put downs and insults of others in the comment section.  I personally could care less whether he leaves WB or not.  He has no real support here that I know of.  When I write articles (as many other people here I respect even I don't always agree with them) I (and they) get compliments. 
 
As far as Disqus. I am a member but really don't know the inner workings.  If it can get traffic to this site then it might be a very viable option.  No system will be perfect.  I've never been censored on Disqus and I've been just as anti establishment/elite there as anywhere else, and definitely not pro Clinton.  However, I don't have extreme WS views or think the Jews are all evil people albeit I think Israel is one of the primary reasons we stay bogged down in the Middle East. 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 15, 2017 - 12:41pm
Jeff Gilbert: Disqus does not censor! It allows the owner of the site, Autumn, to censor.
Romey: You also have good experiences with it.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 15, 2017 - 2:06pm
Geo whines again: that they have no original thought or content.-Real easy, GEO, just click on my name and read.  I don't know if nostalgia is everyone's thing or original, but you do want to keep people patting you on the back, right.  You make a lot of comments that just don't pan out, but sound good to a less than critical audience.
Leroy Added Sep 15, 2017 - 2:09pm
Again, Jeff M., I have no recollection of what you are talking about.  If you want to present evidence to the contrary, please do so.  In any case, it does not rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors.  It sounds like you had a difference of opinion with someone calling it too early.  It is not applicable to this thread.  It's about being disruptive.  If you have other beefs, please feel free to write another article.  I have no beef with you other than the lack of paragraphs.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 15, 2017 - 2:17pm
Leroy: Let me look.  It was earlier last year.  You probably have forgotten, but I have not. -AND In any case, it does not rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors.-What it is is what it is. As noted in my song to MJ, why would I want to spend time doing that twice?  You may feel "victorious" in this thread, but you ain't all that special.  You aren't worth my time, Leroy. So cast about for more "trolls" that disrupt you.
wsucram15 Added Sep 15, 2017 - 2:53pm
Autumn..someone deleted my comment to you that you requested I post, but ok. So i will send vi email.
I see your point but Websters is 94-96% accurate as a source as are many reliable sources, whereas (by their own admission) the reliability score for Wikipedia is at 80% and relies on the source material I am saying is reliable.  
The problem with Wikipedia, is the ability of individuals to change real data (research and the like) to opinion or observation which is biased.
On this the site is discounted by not just me but if you turn in a paper with Wikipedia as a supporting source you can lose a letter grade, if it is a main source, you can fail. When you are writing a Thesis of lets say 40 pages, thats too much work to rely on something that will fail you or even drop you a letter grade.  In fact, when you check a paper in something like grammerly or an equal grammer and plagiarism check.. it red flags Wikipedia.  I  can pull it up and utilize the sources at the bottom for research though..great summary source for the collection of material. 
 
When you write..systematic research even in fiction, (as opposed to general research)  is one of the most important things, aside from imagination, form..etc. Thats all I am saying. 
 
 
Research is like that with many internet sources who write with a slant or are just known for being inaccurate.   You have to remember I dont usually research on Google when I write. It really did affect my grades so I use legal data bases both law libraries and legal papers, journals, research databases and a huge library online data base. I used to have access to major News Archives, but I have to go in person to the papers now which is a pain in the ass. I still get DC and Baltimore archives though so it helps.  Stuff like that sometimes  is where wikipedia has helped narrow down a search.
I do have alternatives to Google but they are more specific.  Its is difficult for most people, unless they pay for it to have access to the data I have.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:01pm
Benjamin,
I could make the emails stop.  You could make the emails stop.  If too many emails are the problem, there is no need to move to Discuss, we have the power to end that now.  The fact one needs a Disqus account to make comments is what concerns me most about moving to Disqus.  Again, it’s not out of the question, I just need a really compelling reason to make the switch.  Jeffry’s comment, whether true or not, is why I have concern. 
 
Jeff,
For whatever it’s worth, I think you have original thought and don’t care if you provide content.  I just wish it was a little easier to comprehend what you’re saying.  A lot of times you quote people and I can’t tell where the quote ends and your writing begins. 
 
Wsucram15,
Who determined those reliability percentages?  One could argue that the problem with Websters is the inability to change the information.  I don’t understand why we’re having this debate, both sources have near identical definitions for “internet troll.” 
Leroy Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:16pm
WSU, I didn't delete any of your comments.
Leroy Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:24pm
Two times you made allegations; two times you aren't able to prove.  You're losing credibility, Michka.
 
Why would I feel victorious or special?  You may think this song is about you, but it isn't.  It isn't about anyone in particular, but two people did inspire me to write this.
 
I don't have to search for trolls.  I manage them on my articles.  I can choose not to read others.  If everyone policed their articles, this site would be more inviting to all.  We could have serious discussions like the Founding Father's had.  Anyone looking at the site today would think we are a bunch of 2 year olds.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:45pm
Autumn: Jeff is wrong about a centralized censorship. Disqus just provides the tool. You, as the administrator, would have the control over the comments. The problem is that email spamming is a very cumbersome way to notify people about new comments. If we shut down the emails, we don't hear from them at all. Disqus just tells us whenever we log in, wherever we do it, what comments have been posted. It is just much more modern.
I would suggest that you have a look at it as a user, make an account on a number of pages, leave comments and see how the system works.
Ultimately, it is up to you. Maybe, one of us puts up an article asking the 'community' on their thoughts. For the moment I just give you some time to think about it.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 15, 2017 - 5:51pm
Two times you made allegations; two times you aren't able to prove.-Well, it appears comments in profile don't quite work as it should.  I couldn't find "evidence," so will withdraw and say there was NEVER any YOU spreading of fake news, YOU weren't ranting about "gun free zones, " and so conclude I just didn't like you for some unknown reason, so decided to accuse you of things.  Fair enough.  It's WB, eh? I've wasted my good time on this, really don't care if you are attacked or anything else.  Leroy, we couldn't have discussed the color of the skid marks in your pants, so knock off the silly "in more sorrow than anger discussion" stuff.  You look foolish writing it.AND Why would I feel victorious or special? -I DUNNO, WHY ARE YOU COUCHING WORDS IN TERMS OF WINNING AND LOSING?
Leroy Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:58pm
Thanks for being man enough to admit your mistake, Michka.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 15, 2017 - 10:54pm
Benjamin,
It doesn’t matter if Jeff is wrong about Disqus.  The fact of the matter is that some people won’t like the idea of having to login into a different site and have their comments go through an organization unaffiliated with Writer Beat.  I agree that a big benefit to Disqus would be a better comment notification system.  For whatever it’s worth, I currently use Disqus to hunt for new participants.  Since we started talking about it, I’ve been using it a lot more.  I’m still not convinced it’s right for Writer Beat, but I’m closer now than ever before. 
 
To all,
A newbie in need of a comment:
http://writerbeat.com/articles/18805-God-is-a-Capitalist-Markets-from-Moses-to-Marx
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 15, 2017 - 11:23pm
I was banned from disqus for commenting exactly the way I do here. Fuck disqus. 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 17, 2017 - 10:48am
@ Leroy. "If you care about the integrity of your article and value the discussion and comments of your commenters, it makes sense to delete the offensive comments.  Yes.  We have freedom of speech.  We also have the freedom from speech.  We don't have to read articles that offend us or comment on them.  As authors, we don't have to tolerate the offensive comments that detract from the discussion. "
 
I disagree with deleting comments as I with moving statues. I believe in using superior argument or foolish one to engage my opponents. (You cannot argue sanely with a fool.) By leaving crude argument, I am allowing the writer to delete him or herself.  Deletion does not give the full picture nor authenticates our site. Perhaps Autumn should have a database on those who delete as a way to check the credibility of their argument.
 
One does not have to respond to individuals she or he views as obnoxious, but I will respond to sane argument from anyone. 
Leroy Added Sep 17, 2017 - 11:44am
I respectfully disagree, Dr. Rupert, but thank you for sharing your opinion.  I submit to you the article by WSU on Trump as proof of my words.  Regardless how you feel about the article, the author, or Trump, look at what happened.  There was a good discussion on the topic.  Then, the dynamic duo takes over.  The discussion dies.  You can see the pattern.  Who wants to wade through all the vitriol.  As the Captain wisely said, "...the negativity herein only serves to make me feel like shit after I respond vehemently to it."  It is not conducive to discussion.  It brings out the worst in us.  Can you imagine what the Federalist and Antifederalists debate would have looked like if they behaved as three-year-olds?
 
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

We are supposed to be adults here.  Let's "put away childish things."
Dawn Foss Added Sep 17, 2017 - 2:15pm
Leroy, you hit the nail on the head. That's all we're asking. Let's not be childish, let's treat each other with respect, and give the best argument we have that represents our views. That's helpful in finding understanding. I would hope that all of us have a level of maturity that becomes an adult, but that is not necessarily true. So those who are not: stop it! Now let's move on! :)
George N Romey Added Sep 17, 2017 - 4:19pm
Hey Leroy you are one of the most respected writers here on WB.  Those that put you down claim WB to be full of morons and dolts.  My question is if they are so superior to us why don't they find a website with people of their perceived intellect.
Leroy Added Sep 17, 2017 - 5:08pm
Thanks, George.  I haven't made a count, but I would wager that you are the top contributor to the site.  You are part of the group that makes the site worth reading.
 
And I agree with you.  Why can't they find a website more conducive to their intellect?
Autumn Cote Added Sep 18, 2017 - 4:25am
If "top" contributor is comment quantity, the top participant in a landslide is Stone with 13,901 comments.  George is in second place with 5,347 comments.  
Leroy Added Sep 18, 2017 - 6:58am
I was thinking more in terms of articles, but, not surprising, Stoney leads there as well, although it is not quite by a landslide.
George N Romey Added Sep 18, 2017 - 7:24pm
I wish we had more content from people like Leroy, SEF, Jeff Jackson and of course others. It would drive traffic to the site. Sadly the childish comments of a few I'm  sure drive away people from participating on this site. This site needs more good content not bored vain people that get their jollies off by personal insults aka as trolling.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 18, 2017 - 8:45pm
George,
I disagree.  I think the thing this site is lacking most is comment activity.   I also think you're too quick to dismiss your commenters as trolls or children when you've actually received something insightful and deserving of a response.   
George N Romey Added Sep 18, 2017 - 10:05pm
Autumn the well written articles here do get comment activity and if writers want responses to their work they also need to participate. Leroy and Jeff Jackson came onboard and were immediately accepted because they wrote very well thought out articles. Even Tom Purcell argued his points well. I don't always agree with Leroy and Jeff as well as Tom but I respected the way they treat others. 
 
People want fresh content. After awhile everything has been said about the topic of an article and that's when it gets besieged with certain members in a hurling of personal insults. 
John G Added Sep 19, 2017 - 12:57am
Every comment that disagrees with Romey is considered by him to be trolling, abuse or an insult. 
He makes wildly incorrect statements about economics and won't take correction or criticism.
He's read a few gold bug lunatic sites and thinks he understands. But in reality he's just been sucked into an elite scam.
Autumn Cote Added Sep 19, 2017 - 6:18am
John,
Is not possible for you to engage in a discussion without resorting to insults and general nastiness. 
 
George,
Sans the insults, I agree with John.  As for your latest comment, again I disagree.  I think there is a lot of great content on this site.  The reason you don’t see it or aren’t naming those authors right now, is because they don’t comment on the work of others.  Because all those authors you named comment on the work of others, they attract readers/commenters.  Should they not attract that stuff, behind the scenes I will promote articles by those authors to the email database to make sure that they do get action.  By way of example, I noticed you recently submitted an article that hasn’t obtained much by way of comment activity. If things don’t pick-up soon, I’m going to help it out.    
Leroy Added Sep 19, 2017 - 10:02am
I agree with George.  Yes.  Comments are important but so are the quality of the comments.  Abusive comments are a negative.  I really don't understand comments for the sake of comments.
 
The best discussions are the ones where there is disagreement and where civility prevails.  That attacks quality, but not necessarily a lot of views.
 
The discussions with the most views are the ones where personal assaults and accusations are flying. 
 
The least activity comes when the author is unknown or does not reply to comments.  For this category, Autumn, you are absolutely correct.  If you don't comment on others, no one knows you and has little incentive to read the article.  If the author never responds, it is a waste of space, regardless of the content.  I get the impression that they don't want to be here in the first place, or they are scared off by all the acrimony.
 
JMHO
 
 
 
 
Leroy Added Sep 19, 2017 - 10:12am
"Every comment that disagrees with Romey is considered by him to be trolling, abuse or an insult."
 
I often disagree with George.  Occasionally, I disagree with Jeff Jackson.  I almost always disagreed with Tom.  But, we all respect each other.  That's the way it should be.  We can discuss our differences civilly, and maybe sometimes we can agree.

"He makes wildly incorrect statements about economics and won't take correction or criticism."
 
You make the most bizarre economic pontifications.  You are right only because you say you are.  You never produce any arguments to support your bizarre claims.  You may be a genius before you time, but you have not made the case.  You have to expect people to disagree.  That is altogether different from the verbal abuse that you use as your argument.

"He's read a few gold bug lunatic sites and thinks he understands. But in reality he's just been sucked into an elite scam."
 
Says you.  So what if his or my understanding might be incomplete.  If so, wouldn't it be better to enlighten us rather than browbeating us into submission with verbal abuse?
Jeff Michka Added Sep 19, 2017 - 3:09pm
John G notes: Every comment that disagrees with Romey is considered by him to be trolling, abuse or an insult.-Now ol Geo has been annointed as a wb Luminary and gawdhead.  Like others including Ryan Messano, Tom Purcell and Michael B, how long before Geo's demise here?  Ol Geo shared his annointment with a few others, including Leroy and SEFa, I suppose to show his ego is only so greedy and loop them into his intellectually dishonest crap he peddles "without question."
Leroy Added Sep 19, 2017 - 10:43pm
Michka, I find George always open to discussion.  If you feel he is wrong or I am wrong, you can always challenge us.  Speaking for myself, I like to be challenged.  Occasionally, I change my mind or at least alter my understanding.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 20, 2017 - 5:18pm
Leroy sez: I find George always open to discussion. -I've found Geo only closed to any discussion, because ANYONE NOT AGREEING WITH HIM OR ASKING Questions of "the Great Man" is an evil troll.  He does nothing but complain, and so really can't add much to discuss.  He's gotten annointed by WB so will obviously feel he has no explanations to make, for example, about his acting ability.  You may well ask why that's relevant.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 25, 2017 - 4:02pm
Geo Romey exclaims: I don't always agree with Leroy and Jeff as well as Tom but I respected the way they treat others.-Ah, like when Nazi Tom Purcell was calling me a Jew/slav/bolshevik/Zionist/pervert/troll?  I Guess he called me those things as a matter of respect.
Leroy Added Sep 25, 2017 - 6:31pm
I would be surprised if Tom called you any of these things.  Got any proof?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 25, 2017 - 8:09pm
Who knows?  All of Tom's stuff is deleted.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 25, 2017 - 8:09pm
Tom did call me a Jew a few times.  Naturally he meant it as an insult.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 25, 2017 - 8:55pm
Leroy asks: I would be surprised if Tom called you any of these things.  Got any proof? Nope.  His stuff is gone, all I HAVE IS A COLLECTION OF THINGS Nazi Tom called me I USED IN ANOTHER ARTICLE: BTW and as a necessary aside, I've been called on WB a Jewish/Russian/Pole/Bolshevik/draft dodging/white hating/Canadian loving/drug dealer, thief and burglar/non-American/Gay/Gypsy/stalker/Troll/and the part of me that's a natve american smeared repeatedly/ and I'm a loving member of the International Zionist conspiracy, along with a whole bunch of libelous smears made against my family and parents, and kids, and also threatened but am still here.-tHE UNDERLINED tOM REPEATEDLY HURLED AT ME .I DON'T HAVE TO "PROVE IT." YOU GOT AWAY ONCE, BUT NOT TWICE.  TOM ALSO CALLED ME OTHER THINGS i DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND, MY WITNESS AND RECOUNT STANDS AS IT IS.  Tom wasn't this wonderful, respectful, scholar some want to portray him as.  Weren't you one of those urging Nazi Tom to take the reins in WB when Autumn was going to walk away, Leroy?
Leroy Added Sep 26, 2017 - 7:51am
Michka, Tom was a little like me.  If repeatedly attacked, he might attack back. 
 
I have been called many names here, including NAZI and Holocaust denier.  I am neither.  I've had holier than thou engineers hurl their insults at me.  JenJen, as you know, likes to hurl her insults at anyone she disagrees with.  Stick and stones may break my bones...
 
I was not in favor of any moderator.  But, of the choices given, Tom would have been the fairest.  The Captain would have been like having no moderator.  He wouldn't have been a bad choice, but it would have defeated the purpose.  Ryan's a good guy, but, as moderator, he would have been a farce.  I don't remember the others.  My preference is for the authors to moderate their own articles.  I'm still amazed that people are afraid to use their power.  They want moderation as long as it is someone else who does it.  I can't put my finger on it. 
Leroy Added Sep 26, 2017 - 7:53am
JK, it is true that Tom sometimes responded in kind.  I don't deny that, nor do I blame him.  We had heated arguments on occasion.  He was always civil with me.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 26, 2017 - 8:31am
Tom generally started as civil to me but as I brought more and more to the table he became more insulting.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 26, 2017 - 12:29pm
Leroy sez:  Tom would have been the fairest.-Compared to what? So, "fair" is one of Tom's last avatars that was a swastika?  Any article he'd commented on became a Third Reich billboard.  Fotunately, he left and took his Nazi toys with him.  I guess your comparision is like comparing Mussolini to Fransisco Franco.  Which was a better dictator?
Leroy Added Sep 26, 2017 - 7:36pm
I will be the first to tell you, Michka, that I didn't agree with his ideology.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 27, 2017 - 3:53pm
Geo "Troll" Romey claims: Ignore the trolls they just want attention and add nothing.-So, we should ignore you. Geo?  Who will tell you "You're so right," "You're so correct," "Your writing is brilliant?" IF THEY IGNORE YOU, AND YOU ARE ONE OF THE BIGGEST TROLLS ON THIS SITE.  Your "water of life" would dry up and blow away faster than you do nothing...LOL
Jeff Michka Added Sep 27, 2017 - 8:32pm
Leroy sez: I will be the first to tell you, Michka, that I didn't agree with his ideology-Never said you did, or call you a nazi.